Anybody got any good info or thoughts on this bike. I know that it won't technically be released until Jan. But I'm thinking of buying one. And there is not a alot of time to decide. (No I won't be selling the 12)
Jiggsy...I have owned alot of BMW's....R69, R75, R100RS, R1100RS, K75S,K100RS,and a K12RSA. Awesome bikes...every damn one of them. Biggest gripe is the price but fit and finish is by far the best. Reliability...I wouldn't say much better than the japanese 4. I had a couple break downs which proves nothing mechanical is indestructable. I continue to own BMW's and ride them when I need to tone it down a little from the 12. I own the 12 because of it's performance not the long distnace capabilities like most BMW's have.
Feel free to e-mail me if ya have other questions...
Well, my experience of BMW is a bit different. Of course, I have only had 3 mixed in with Kaw, Honda, Yamaha and a Moto Guzzi.
The K100RS was a great machine, only thing that broke was the alternator bearings, possibly my fault for running it at the rev limiter in top gear for miles on end, but BMW covered the parts (about 90% of the cost) even though it was out of warranty.
My 98 R11GS has been a very different story.
First of all, BMW NA sucks. They don't stand behind the product, and will not intervene in a dealer / customer dispute in any way whatsoever. They are slowly driving the smaller dealers out of business, many of whom are extremely competent in terms of servicing the machines, and most of whom are BMW enthusiasts, in favor of the high-end fashion stores as per Harley Davidson.
The dealers suck (mostly): a good BMW dealer is very good. A bad BMW dealer is incompentent and rapacious as well. In 24k miles on my R11GS, all serviced at the dealer, I experienced a totally dry battery (2 days after driving it home from the 6k service, 8 months old), cross-threaded oil drain plugs, which was also overtighted as they did not fit the sealing washer (supposedly replaced every service, as per the charge sheet).
The ABS refuses to initialize (battery issue, dealer told me 'ride it, it's fine', bike refused to start a week later).
I had a sucked in tank. The dealer (different dealer this time) claimed it was my fault: fuel in the tank drain hole gets into the charcoal cannister, blocking it. This causes a vacuum to build up and dented the tank. Funny how I noticed it a day after getting it back from him. His words were 'It's your word against mine, and BMW NA will take my word every time'.
Took the bike to another dealer for a second opinion, am still waiting for the phone call, despite repeated phone calls to the shop manager on the result (he was out when I picked the bike up).
I had a saddlebag fall off on a bump. Broken mounting point. Dealer claimed it was damaged in an accident. Asked him to prove it, he pointed to some scratches on the left valve cover (parking lot fall-over). When I pointed out that it was the right bag, he said, 'well, it has scratches on it, therefore it was in an accident'. How a bag falls off at 50 mph without getting scratches beats me. His final comment 'It's my word against yours, and BMW...'.
Then I had an exploded fuel filter, which blocked the fuel pump. Dealer said if I took off the tank myself and anything else was wrong, they would refuse all warranty claims. Then said he was putting me at the bottom of his service list (2 week wait) as I had not bought the bike there. This is the same dealer that we bought a 99 F650 from 6 months after buying the GS (from a dealer who had since closed), which he did not have in stock at the time. Also the same dealer who had serviced the bike before, and from whom we had bought helmets and gear...
Out of the dealers I dealt with: the original purchasing dealer is defunct, wrong image, probably couldn't stay in business given the demograpthics of his area.
The 600 mile service was OK, except for the oil level not being right. And the bike surged afterwards.
The 6000 mile service was a disaster (see above), and the dealer wanted the bike for 12 days to do what takes me 2 - 3 hours at home: we eventually settled on 4 days, so I had to rent a car for a week.
The mess from the 6k service was fixed at 8k, and the bike winterised. Great dealer (Freeman in Beverley, MA), since forced to close by BMW for shop image reasons.
16k: the exploded fuel filter and dented tank episode described above.
17K: the non-responsive dealer.
18K: Did it myself: surging was drastically reduced following BMW-GS website instructions.
24k: A very good, very expensive ($900) service, except the bike surged afterwards. Of course this excluded about $1500 in parts (mostly injectors and throttle body) and labor repaired under warranty.
The bike still surges sometimes, throttle response is still glitchy at on/off throttle. Been very reliable the last 7k miles, feels very solid. But I just sold it. After all my complaints and correspondence, BMW NA and the dealer basically told me I was not a BMW-type customer, and please go buy a different make of bike.
So I have. I am keeping the Concours I bought this year, and probably (definitely) adding a ZX12R.
The 99 F650 is also up for sale (wife's bike, probably replaced by Japanese), and when the 330xi comes due for replacement, I will do my best to persuade my wife she needs a change of brand.
BTW, Motorcycle Consumer News (who do not take any advertising), recently did an analysis of motorcycle recalls. By far the best reliability was Honda, closely followed by Yamaha. Then came Suzuki and Kaw, both way ahead of any of the European / American brands. Aprilia was essentially middle of the torad, and I seem to recall Ducati just beat BMW, both a fair bit worse than Aprilia. BMW only really beat out the American brands (Victory, HD and Buell), who really sucked.
I was really lusting for a K12RS last year, just can't justify the expense of purchase and maintenance, and the necessity to support money-hungry dealers and BMW NA., when there are great bikes like the ST1300, ZZR1200, FJR1300, Aprilia Futura, the ZX12 and others out there. I suspect the ST1300 is going to kick BMW's sport-touring bikes' butts.
The Goldwing already did it to the K12LT.
Ya, I was hoping you would chime in Mono. I knew you were the BMW officianado. That's the reason for considering buying the K 1200 GT. I'd like to be able to do a little comfort touring, without sacrificing too much in the performance area. Not to mention be able to bring a whole lot of item's I could normally not carry with the 12. Thanks for the info.
Tony, it sounds as though you've had a real infuriating experience with dealers. I myself am currently going through a war with GM, on account of my car being a lemon, and is in the shop every month and a half. Not to mention they are trying to juice me for money. My buddy has a ZZR 1200. So that's out as a possbility. But I have been following the ST 1300, and the FJ 1300, as well. They are all in the running with the BMW. There is obviously a huge price difference between the three. I guess I just like the look of the new BMW. I guess the final decision will be made when I am capable of making a more informed decision. Thanks for taking the time to relay all that info.
I have also been hit by the BMW bug sort of speak. I had a complete ass hole for a dealer when I bought my K12RSA. Basicaly changed brands to Triumph, because of that dealer. That bike was not as reliable as one would think, and BMW being the most reliable is a myth. At 11,000 miles I completely blew the final drive up. Thank god for standard 3 year waranty. It blew a hole 5" big in the housing, and snapped the universal and shaft right in half.Other than that though, the bike ran flawless for the 43,000 two year life it had with me. I seriously doubt that another brand will make a smoother running engine than the K12. Iv'e driven them all at one time or another and the K12 just plain never skipped a beat, vibrated, hickuped, or failed to run. It even squeezed out 45 mpg. Manged a few wheelies and was red lined every damn day.
Next favorite BMW was a 95 K75S. Very nice sport tourer and quite sexy really in it's Artic Silver paint. Reliability.......um....the transmision lost second gear at 27,000 miles and cost me the last two months of riding.
K100RS had a few minor probs but I couldn't live with the buzz that thing had at just about all speeds.Rated right up there with a Kawasaki Concourse, which wasa bit buzzy anywhere from 50 mph to 80.
Dealers set aside, I think BMW makes a nice bike. If money wasn't a factor, they would sell more. If dealers were friendly and curtious, BMW would get more return buyers.
Are BMW's perfect road bikes......hell no. No one makes a perfect bike that does everything . If they did, the whole world would ride the same thing. Every bike suits one person better than the other.
I say, if you like the looks, love the ride for what you want it to do, then buy it.
I personaly have owned several different brands...Yamaha, Kawasaki, Suzuki, Honda, BMW, Harley, Triumph, KTM, Husqcavarna, and a Rokon. That was 18 total bikes,and out of all those, only two have been trouble free, other than normal wear. That was a 1971 BMW R75/5. I ran that bike for 38,000 miles with the throttle pinned quite often including a track day. Yes, a track day with that old piece of boxer. The other reliable bike was the 1966 Rokon trail breaker. I have owned it since 1980, and continue to work the crap out of it through the woods on trail rides, dragging dear out and working around the house.
So...I have proved ......nothing mechanical will always be totaly reliable. just some folks will have better luck than others.
Luck is definately a factor in any type of mechanical purchase. Hopefully I will be lucky, as I've been with the 12, (Although the mileage isn't that high) when I make my next purchase. Thanks for the insight Mono.
Any time Jiggs..oh, and be on the look out for future BMW's. Rumor has it that there going to be stepping up a notch towards the sport side.
Bet your arse that they have the technology to build a killer sports machine. Look at what they did last year at their first go in Formula 1 racing.
I'll say. Even just the bike I'm thinking about getting is a big step in the performance direction, as far REAL, sport tourers go. But Ya. I'm sure they could make one hell of a pure sport bike. Sooner or later, all these bike companies start to realize when they are missing out on the extra piece of the pie. And the bullshit ends where the money starts. Just ask Harley Davidson.