[code3ryder]

if you get the full system do you HAVE to get the power commander?

</p>

 

[r21xz]

For what the system costs,ya might as well just throw a in a couple hundred extra and get the power package from Spencer Cycle.

Full Akro race,pc,and K&N's for $1292,delivered.That's what I just did,thought it was'nt a bad deal? Have'nt gotten out since I put it all on,but it sure sounds healthy!

Jeff

</p>

 

[T^2]

Based on my experience... I would say definitely yes....

The first PC I got was bad. I rode the bike with just the Akra while I was playing ping-pong with Dynojet. Frankly, with just the Akra the bike ran like shit.

I installed the PC (after I got a good one from Dynojet) and took it to FastTrax to get a custom map made. We did another base run with the Akra installed and base map loaded into the PC (same as if no PC was installed). It was readily apparent why the bike ran like crap. The A/F ratio was pretty rough across the band (a lot of variance). After the custom map was made the A/F ratio looked a lot smoother. The end result is that now the bike runs awesome. In fact every time I ride the thing I'm wowed by how well it runs.

My recommendation is this. Don't bother spending all that money on an Akra if you don't plan on going all the way. All the way meaning getting a PC or Yosh box and having a custom map made at a tuning center where the folks know what they are doing. In my opinion it would be foolish to spend the most considerable chunk of change on the pipe and not go ahead and spend the extra few hundred on finishing the job off right.

If you buy only the Akra and don't install the PC with a custom map then there is a good chance that the bike will run worse than stock. Why spend all that money on an Akra to end up with a bike that runs worse? I think you are better off leaving it stock if you don't go all the way...

Your other option is buying a slip-on. Most folks that I know that have slip-ons don't take a hit on performance when compared to the way the bike ran before it was installed. The bikes definitely sound better with a slip-on. As far as an improvement in looks - that's in the eyes of the beholder. Some don't like the look of the flange. I considered going the slip-on route but I could not get over the flange thing. I thought the Muzzys was the best looking slip on that I saw. It's more expensive than the rest (only a few hundred less than their full system), but all in all, it cost far less then buying a full system and going all the way (PC and custom map).

There is my two cents worth....


</p>Edited by: <A HREF=http://pub56.ezboard.com/utbbt.showPublicProfile?language=EN>TBBT</A> at: 9/14/02 1:43:25 pm

 

[IWasBlitz]

Interesting topic.

I am running the Akra SS/Ti, Kleen Air block-offs, K&N's etc..

I sold my PC3R a couple of months back in prep. for buying the Yosh.

Now, and Nebraska can confirm this, my bike at Denvers altitude will throttle lift the front in 3rd gear at about 6500 rpm.

Since I got rid of the PC3R, my gas mileage has gone up at least 6 mpg., to boot.

I'm not knocking the PC3R, but I am saying that if you have everything else dialed in spot-on, the stock ECU will do just fine with a modded 12r.

P.S. - I am not buying the Yosh Box, I don't need to.

Just some thoughts from the green side of the septic tank. <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/images/emoticons/roll.gif ALT=":rollin">

"Here, hold my trophy while I kiss your girlfriend."</p>

 

[T^2]

<blockquote>Quote:<hr> I'm not knocking the PC3R, but I am saying that if you have everything else dialed in spot-on, the stock ECU will do just fine with a modded 12r.<hr></blockquote>

How do you know you have everything spot-on? Have you put it on the dyno (run it through its range at 20, 40, 60, 80 and 100% throttle) to see what the A/F ratio looks like? Or are you using your seat of the pants dyno to base you judgment on?

I suppose one could say the same about a carbureted bike - the stock jets and needles would do just fine if everything else was dialed in spot-on. But in most cases a little rejetting will be called for if you add a new pipe to the bike.

My bike was still quite capable off pulling the wheel off the ground, but it still ran like shit.

Because of where you live you may have gotten lucky... I don't know. You may know something I don't. I don't know your situation. The profile of the stock ECU may be adequate for you area. Of course it's possible that another 12 in your area would not fair as well - as I've said, no two machine are exactly alike - same model or no....

I will say that for me, here in the Cincinnati area I've found that with just the pipe the bike ran like crap - after the PC install and custom map the bike runs great. I don't know of any other/easier way of dialing it in than using a PC to make up for the changes caused by adding an aftermarket pipe... If there is a better way, then I admit my ignorance...

If you want to go without a PC, then I would still have it dyno'ed to see what the A/F ratios look like, even if the bike seems to run good. You never know, you may find that after examining the results and making some adjustments the bike can run even better. If you have it dyno'ed at least you have a pretty good ideal of where you stand and if any tangible improvements could be obtained. Then you would also know if a PC might be worth the effort...







</p>

 

[r21xz]

I think I'll try unplugging mine too and see what happens.When i got the pipe on,I had to hear it so I started it up before the PC was in.It was a little harder starting than stock,and blew out some black smoke.After the pc,no smoke at start-up.

Finally got to go for a test ride,and it seems stronger.No biggie til the revs get higher,than it turns on harder.now i have to keep 2nd gear from looping! It'll stay up in 2nd til the rev limiter.Yeah,definetely stronger!I did'nt notice any flat spots or anything funny,but I've gotta ride it a bit more. I'm rattlin' on here,later.

Jeff

</p>

 

[mooerss]

tbbt, before getting the custom map did you try the dj map for akra pipe? if so, how much better is the customer map?

</p>

 

[T^2]

<blockquote>Quote:<hr> tbbt, before getting the custom map did you try the dj map for akra pipe? if so, how much better is the customer map?<hr></blockquote>

Yes I did try the DJ map for my setup. I had no choice. I had to wait a week or so before my appointment at FastTrax. The bike only ran slightly better with the DJ map. All in all, it still ran like crap - so much so that I didn't care to ride it.

As I said, I used the DJ map for my exact setup... I wasn't surprised that the DJ map didn't work well with my bike. Every machine is different, even if it is the same model as another and setup exactly the same. I mentioned a good example of this in another post. DD at FastTrax had two GSXR750 race bikes. Both were setup identically to each other, but required two different maps.

I know people go about it different ways. Some swap maps, others try to make their own. It's my opinion that the best way to do it is to have a map made for you specific machine.

I'd had already spent $1300 on the project... I wasn't going to quibble about the extra $250 to finish the job off right....


</p>Edited by: <A HREF=http://pub56.ezboard.com/utbbt.showPublicProfile?language=EN>TBBT</A> at: 9/15/02 11:24:24 am

 

[Red 12R Rocket]

Like Blitz, I've been running my 12R without a Power Commander for a couple of months now. The bike ran a little smoother with the custom-mapped PCIIIr, but feels STRONGER without the "Dynojunk" box!! I won't be installing another PCIIIr or Yosh EMS - they simply aren't worth having on my bike. [Especially when you KNOW the damn Power Commander will probably fail at some point in time.]

</p>

 

[Nebraska12R]

<blockquote>Quote:<hr> All in all, it still ran like crap - so much so that I didn't care to ride it.<hr></blockquote>
Damn, not trying to start anything but......did you not buy this bike because of what it was right off of the showroom floor? If you were looking for an all out monster (hense the "upgrades" and it still ran like shit) why didn't you buy something cheaper and lighter to spend the money on? If you did that then you could rebuild the engine or do whatever with the extra cost that it took to buy the 12 and get it to where it is now......Like I said, I am BONE stock, ask Blitz, mudflap and all. I love this bike how it is right now, I will eventually mod the hell out of it but I just can't see how you are running this bike down as saying it runs so bad that you don't care to ride it. I saw Blitz's bike lift, after it broke loose, in third gear......we are talking about an altitude of almost a mile high. Sorry I am rambling but, before this bike there has been nothing like it unless you were racing professionally.....I am young but this is the best bike I have owned.
Just tryin to understand....

Is that a Honda?</p>

 

[T^2]

Nebraska12R -

I think you misunderstand. The bike ran great stock off the show room floor. I was quite happy with the way it ran stock. However, one of the things that I didn't like about the stock setup was the size and the stock can. The primary reason that I got the Akra for the bike was for an aesthetic improvement. Any improvement in performance was just an added plus. Part of my goal however was to end up with a bike that ran as well as it did stock in terms of smoothness etc. I didn't want to end up with a bike that had flat spots, idle hunts etc… (One of the reasons I went with an Akra).

I loved riding the bike in its stock form and I wanted to feel the same way after I made the cosmetic change. However, after I put the Akra on it (without a PC), it ran like crap. I don't know how it is for others, but riding a bike that is running poorly takes the pleasure out of it for me. The same thing goes for driving a poorly running car. So I didn't get much pleasure out of riding the bike during the short period that I had to wait to get the map made.

Now that it’s all said and done (map made), I'm quite pleased. The bike runs every bit as good as it did stock in terms of smoothness etc. And as I said, an added plus is that the bike experienced a bit of a performance gain.

So no, I'm not looking for an all out monster. I just wanted to make a cosmetic improvement without doing damage elsewhere. I think I achieved my goal.


</p>Edited by: <A HREF=http://pub56.ezboard.com/utbbt.showPublicProfile?language=EN>TBBT</A> at: 9/15/02 9:32:15 am

 

[Nebraska12R]

OK...now I understand. Like I said, I wasn't trying to start something....just wondering. Thanks for explaining

Is that a Honda?</p>

 

[T^2]

<blockquote>Quote:<hr> OK...now I understand. Like I said, I wasn't trying to start something....just wondering. Thanks for explaining <hr></blockquote>

That's cool... I didn't take it that way....

My intent was to offer code3ryder good advice, in my opinion anyway... Of course, as the saying goes, opinions are like assholes - everybody's got one...

</p>Edited by: <A HREF=http://pub56.ezboard.com/utbbt.showPublicProfile?language=EN>TBBT</A> at: 9/15/02 9:46:22 am