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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
I have been wanting to convert my 12r heads up bike to run on alky nitro mix. I will be converting it this winter. I know it can be done but am unsure of the tuning aspect of it and would rather have a heads up when messing with nitro. Any educated thought , Ideas or negatives are greatly appreciated , Thanks all
 

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You need more cam separation like if the cams are at 100 ~ 102 degrees, you'd run 106~108 degrees for separation. Alky burns slow, so there is more timing needed. And if this is a computer bike, you need to hack the ECU's timing map and play with that.

You play with nitro, head down to the local track and go ask the funny car/rail crowd. Funny may run alky alone and know the repercussions, or they run a mix? The rail boys/gals run nitro with who knows what racing fuel from a barrel, but they've been there, done that, and you hit them up for the blending there of or not?
 

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Discussion Starter #3
I already have a motec on the bike so there wont be an issue with tuning it. Like I said I understand alky 100%. I have had alky cars before . What is new to me is adding nitro to alky. I have herd some crazy stuff and some reasonable sounding ideas. Not sure what to make of it. But I know I want to do it because of the power aspect. Im looking fo every ftlb and hp I can get. I don't care if I even have to tear down the motor every 15 passes.
 

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Discussion Starter #5 (Edited)
Yes I have too , I have also been told that you can go as high as 30ish percent ..So just trying to get a good starting point. I also have nfc what the af ratio should be on a nitro mix?
 

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have you looked into oxy fuels? might be a little easier. i had to turn up the dwell to run an 85% methanol, 15% pump gas mix in the non charge cooled turbo bike. i would think you would need a way better ign system to light something at a 2:1 AFR!
what are the specs on your motor? tearing it down every 15 passes doesnt sound fun... once a season is enough for me.
dont you need aluminum rods for nitro?
 

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Discussion Starter #8 (Edited)
I have already been into the 7s on strait vp m5. I am trying to switch over to this and get away from the strait meth. Rods Im not sure about I know guys that have run that mix without alumn rods in other applications , But open to learn something new all the time.
Motor is pretty big even as far as busas go. I have a ..one off.. weld up crank, dry block, muzzy big block with (as far as I know ) one off pistons , epoxy ported velocity head bigger intake valves busa buckets springs big cams ect.

The ignition is deff something to think about. Hadnt thought about that. But the nitro has oxygen in it already so should be ok even at that af ? Rite ?
I had planned on running a very hot plug but besides that hadn't given the ignition much thought.
 

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I already have a motec on the bike so there wont be an issue with tuning it. Like I said I understand alky 100%. I have had alky cars before . What is new to me is adding nitro to alky. I have herd some crazy stuff and some reasonable sounding ideas. Not sure what to make of it. But I know I want to do it because of the power aspect. Im looking fo every ftlb and hp I can get. I don't care if I even have to tear down the motor every 15 passes.
I would like to talk with you about the Motec system.. I've been in the market for sometime for a stand alone and Motec always comes to the top if the list..
 

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Nitro = Broken parts sooner than later... Small amounts of nitro is like the term too much boost... Is there a such thing when everything is working? The answer is always no there's never too much until there is.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
I would like to talk with you about the Motec system.. I've been in the market for sometime for a stand alone and Motec always comes to the top if the list..
Yea sure pm me Il try to help out as much as possible

Nitro = Broken parts sooner than later... Small amounts of nitro is like the term too much boost... Is there a such thing when everything is working? The answer is always no there's never too much until there is.
I have been running nitrous oxide for years in cars and bikes . I was always going into the motors and doing refreshes before something happened . I plan on doing the same with the nitro alky setup. Im hoping nitro will be no different as far as parts abuse if tuned rite . ? Yes Or no ? Im trying to learn here guys so don't be shy you wont hurt my feelings lol
 

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If it was me I would try a 5.5 afr ratio mix and go from there . I would also have a good knock sensor setup to help with possible detonation problems ( imo that will be the killer) ,then pull it apart and check for any weaknesses .
If all's good try a 5.0 afr mix and go from there , i have seen some big turbo cars (one made 1934 rwhp) with just alky and boost with Lunati I beam rods in it .
PS sounds like you are really on the ball and know what your doing , you have one nasty bike already mate !! Keep us posted on how it goes with the nitro ..
 

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from listening to my dads rail buddies talk shop for decades:

richen the motor up on the alky till it's "good-n-fat", then add in 5 or 10% pop.

listen, read plugs / piston tops / bearings / etc and evaluate

repeat in 5% steps till you are either happy, run out of nerve or burn it down...




(free advice is usually only worth what you paid for it... nothing)
 

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Discussion Starter #15
from listening to my dads rail buddies talk shop for decades:

richen the motor up on the alky till it's "good-n-fat", then add in 5 or 10% pop.

listen, read plugs / piston tops / bearings / etc and evaluate

repeat in 5% steps till you are either happy, run out of nerve or burn it down...




(free advice is usually only worth what you paid for it... nothing)

That's pretty much what I was thinking.. Glad someone else said that.
thanks good advice
 

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listen, read plugs / piston tops / bearings / etc and evaluate...
1. ddon listened well. So ping means to add advance till it pings, then back it off every 2 degrees till it stops.

2. The plug's porcelain nose, this is where you look for tiny gray dots. Way down the bottom is how rich or lean it is at the base of the porcelain. And gray at the base [ideal] is different than gray dots at the other end of the porcelain.

3. At peak knock or peak compression, the detonation occurs here. So wherever the spark plug position is, look at the piston dome to spark electrode at that intersect point. For said, 'missing gray matter' is beginning to bore a hole there, and the gray dots are the aluminum dets: melted on the porcelain.

4. The x-ray may be too late, but faster than pulling engine. It would be better if the oil inspection had a glass oil cartridge housing. You want to find bearing sediment at the bottom of the housing. So if say this was an old CB750 oil filter, you pull the housing, look down the bottom of the cartridge carrier for bearing sediment, or pour it out in a pan. This way, you bring a case of oil filters and each pass is to sacrifice the cartridge: by cutting it open to see if any bearing collapsed?

This is faster than pulling the engine or dropping the sump pan, and do you really pull a cap off without new bolts and nuts each time? This is where you run zero yamahondakawibond between the cases. You pull engine; split cases; inspect at least the 5 crank halves; back together she goes; without adding yamabond and all that silicone that may drop in and clog something. That's how I ran the race engines is no hondabond to contaminate an engine. I'm going to tear it down after the race so there is less cleanup, less contamination. The Sacrificial Cartridge is all about racing.
 

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i would love to see results from this!

so bigger than a 1427? larger was rare, i saw a 1460 build, but zero updates after. Muzzy had a 1484 option, but youre making it sound like the bore is larger than 87mm?

did you run this motor on gas before M5? we had good luck with MRX02 in a 1427 (see sig) for lsr. wondering if it would pick up any noticeable gains from drinking alchy?

hubz, how about the ss cleanable filters? i like oem, but this might be an application for the

Flo Stainless Steel Lifetime Reusable Oil Filter - Schnitz Racing


on the nitro, ive read that it will auto ignite once running well, and can keep revving until the fuel is shut off even if you kill the ign. also you need to start the motor on gas, then switch it over. no experience, ive only been around a little alchy stuff so far(and blown alchy is my current fav combo, over powering the strip i race on big time).
 

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If you are good with maths its ezey to find out the afr's with these fuels , if you run 10% of nitro at 2.1 afr's into 90% of alky at 6.1 , so 10% of nitro works out to be 5.7 afr's you would have to run ....20% of nitro mixed with 80% of alky would give you a ratio of 5.3 afr's if you get my drift.
 

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If you are good with maths its ezey to find out the afr's with these fuels...
And that is why I leave that to the tuners. I'd mess the formula up. Interesting subject this fueling. If we turned off the acetylene, kept the oxy on, it would keep burning that pure oxygen. Alky is so oxy cold, :headscratch: you'd need a backup intake gate to shut down the air coming in to turn it [the engine] off.

You have that exhaust valve cherry red and it keeps the engine running, no spark [kill switch] will help, meaning. And that too means to keep the piston/head/valves = Carbon free. One cherry spot there and she keeps running.

And then you sniffing all that mixing did up? :crazyloco: Down the roadaddyour brain drained.
 
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