[mrbiker]

Hi all,

Bought an '02 and just did the KLEEN Air labotomy. Put on Muzzy plates. Found out while I was doing it the guy who owned it before took off the fuel separator. That's the valve thingy that the 2 small hoses coming off the back of the fuel tank connect to. Should I buy a new one and put it back?

If not, what's the correct thing to do with the 2 hoses coming off the back of the gas tank?

There are 4 hoses on the separator - 2 go to those hoses, where do the other 2 go to? It looks like one goes to the carb on the right side and the other goes to the Kleen air pump. Is this correct?

All help is greatly appreciated.

TIA

m

 

[mrbiker]

bump

Does anyone know????

 

[thekaz]

never heard of a "fuel seperator" on a gasline engine ???? Just desiels....
sounds more like a charcoal canister system on a CaliforniaEmissions bike . it may have a fuel vapour seperator.
do you have a manual ???

 

[mrbiker]

http://www.ronayers.com/fiche/400_0...0-b1_b2.cfm?man=ka&groupid=14220&parent=14190

(can't get picture to go online).

It's part # 16165. Aparrently, it sits next to the rear brake reservoir.

Thanks.

m

 

[thekaz]

oh man now i am stumped ???
haahahaa
and i am supposed to be a mechanic :lol: :lol:
great now i am curious i will have to check my ride out now

 

[ZX1Ninja]

Re: bump

Does anyone know????

For those that asked or are interested;
The fuel separator is part of the fuel evaporative system and keeps liquid fuel from getting into the system. It dose so by using the pumping action on a diaphragm at the center of the separator, created by the vacuum of one carburetor/throttle body manifold tap. (multiple taps would create a smoother vacuum source and insufficient or no pumping action would be created. The area above the diaphragm acts as a storage chamber, albeit small, for the liquid that is pumped out during part throttle operation.

This is needed because the evaporative system was only designed for fuel vapors and cannot handle liquid fuel. I would have doubts as to why it was removed because it would only affect the drivability/power if it was defective and allowed liquid fuel to reach the evaporative system. Or, fuel (vapor or liquid) to be sucked into the intake system at the wrong time for vapor, (or not at all for liquid) or just plain cause a vacuum leak due to a torn diaphragm.

If you still have the charcoal canister, the separator should be there to prevent liquid fuel from getting into the canister and create even bigger problems. (Like allowing liquid fuel to siphon [not likely, but possible] into the canister and leaf out when it fills up through the fresh air vent). It is located in the tail section under the pillion seat.

The system is described in the factory service manual, reference page numbers 3-148 – 3-149 of manual #99924-1278-04.

I hope this helps mrbiker.

 

[ZX1Ninja]

Re: bump

Does anyone know????

For what ever reason my response poted twice. ???

I dunno why wilson, it's just that way.

 

[Wideout]

Good info Ninja. Thanks.


If you click the Submit button twice (while your browser is still churning), it will post it twice.

 

[mrbiker]

AWESOME!!

Awesome info. Thanks, ZX1Ninja.

So bottom line is, I should put it back.

Why is it out? I'd say because the guy who sold me the bike told me he removed the Kleen Air system. Actually, he removed the fuel separator and left the Kleen Air system intact (and still working).

I bought the Muzzy plates and took the Kleen Air bad boy out myself. Then I started wondering where all those hoses went. Since I had taken the Kleen Air out (following some excellent instructions found on the board) and they made no mention of those vacuum hoses, yet the guy who sold me the bike told me he removed the Kleen Air, it didn't add up so I looked in my manual.

So now I want to know if I'd get better or worse performance if it were in or out. I now have the answer ZX1Ninja. Thanks again.

m

 

[ZX1Ninja]

Re: AWESOME!!

Awesome info. Thanks, ZX1Ninja.

m

Anytime

and yea, maybe I did click it twice.





It's ok Wilson. We don't need it anymore.

 

[XXORCIST]

Re: bump

Does anyone know????

For those that asked or are interested;
The fuel separator is part of the fuel evaporative system and keeps liquid fuel from getting into the system. It dose so by using the pumping action on a diaphragm at the center of the separator, created by the vacuum of one carburetor/throttle body manifold tap. (multiple taps would create a smoother vacuum source and insufficient or no pumping action would be created. The area above the diaphragm acts as a storage chamber, albeit small, for the liquid that is pumped out during part throttle operation.

This is needed because the evaporative system was only designed for fuel vapors and cannot handle liquid fuel. I would have doubts as to why it was removed because it would only affect the drivability/power if it was defective and allowed liquid fuel to reach the evaporative system. Or, fuel (vapor or liquid) to be sucked into the intake system at the wrong time for vapor, (or not at all for liquid) or just plain cause a vacuum leak due to a torn diaphragm.

If you still have the charcoal canister, the separator should be there to prevent liquid fuel from getting into the canister and create even bigger problems. (Like allowing liquid fuel to siphon [not likely, but possible] into the canister and leaf out when it fills up through the fresh air vent). It is located in the tail section under the pillion seat.

The system is described in the factory service manual, reference page numbers 3-148 – 3-149 of manual #99924-1278-04.

I hope this helps mrbiker.

okay,im having the same problem witha friends bike! wow! he doesnt still have the canister in the back however we noticed that both nipples on the back of the tank are plugged! where /what do i need to do? the kleen are has been blocked but this stuff is gone! the vac.lines seem to still be there just hanging like drain tubes.

 

[mrbiker]

I think this is the answer...

That's what I found - hanging drain hoses (or are they vacuum hoses) - one was plugged, one had a small piece of mesh over the end (so it could breathe).

As far as the canister in the tail goes - that's only for California bikes (well documented in the shop manual - which I have). If you don't have a California bike, there is nothing in the tail, just a small barrell shaped canister near the rear brake reservoir.

I went to the dealer last night to pick up some parts and look at the arrangement near the rear brake reservoir, and for the first time in 3 years, he didn't have a ZX-12R on the floor. That's my luck!

If anyone would be kind enough to take a photo of the arrangement of the fuel separator near the rear brake reservoir, it would really help.

Thanks.

m

 

[Wideout]

Jimb. Come in, Jimb.

 

[XXORCIST]

Re: I think this is the answer...

That's what I found - hanging drain hoses (or are they vacuum hoses) - one was plugged, one had a small piece of mesh over the end (so it could breathe).

As far as the canister in the tail goes - that's only for California bikes (well documented in the shop manual - which I have). If you don't have a California bike, there is nothing in the tail, just a small barrell shaped canister near the rear brake reservoir.

I went to the dealer last night to pick up some parts and look at the arrangement near the rear brake reservoir, and for the first time in 3 years, he didn't have a ZX-12R on the floor. That's my luck!

If anyone would be kind enough to take a photo of the arrangement of the fuel separator near the rear brake reservoir, it would really help.

Thanks.

m

found a picture of it in the index(gen.specs) up top in 2001 parts manuel under "fuel evaporation system" shows a good diagram.

 

[ZX1Ninja]

Re: bump

okay,im having the same problem witha friends bike! wow! he doesnt still have the canister in the back however we noticed that both nipples on the back of the tank are plugged! where /what do i need to do? the kleen are has been blocked but this stuff is gone! the vac.lines seem to still be there just hanging like drain tubes.

For the bikes without the fuel evaporative canister. The tank needs to breath or to be more accurate, vent because fuel does expand and contract and is used creating a constantly changing volume. The separator allows for this and catches the liquid fuel that spills out and returns it to the tank the same as if the canister was present. You could cap off the tubes, but I would leave the vent tube open to allow for expansion and contraction of the fuel, keeping the tank from expanding and collapsing as well.

If you choose to do this, I would recommend making sure that the vent line extends all the way out of the vehicle so as not to spill any fuel that may exit the vent in a location that will not create a fire hazard. However, an additional caution needs to be stated with that. Be sure not to rout the vent such that if liquid fuel is vented, it will not create a traction problem as well.

I would recommend replacing the separator if it is missing or defective instead of removing it, if for no other reason than safety. Fuel is volatile and slippery and I certainly do not want anyone to be hurt.

There seems to be some confusion, or maybe it's just they way I am reading this. Nevertheless, the KLEEN Air system is not related to the fuel evaporative system except that it controls emissions. The two systems control entirely different emissions in entirely different ways and are not connected or dependent upon each other for proper operation.

Also, as I stated in another thread about the KLEEN air system, and at the risk of starting yet another debate, I am a clean air advocate in that I believe we can have these high performance machines and still help keep the air we all breath clean. Moreover, while I do not personally think these controls should be removed, disabled or modified, the choice is ultimately yours. While I will not claim to know everything, I believe my 20 + years specializing in emissions control at least gives me some knowledge of the systems and their function that I am more than willing to help others with the understanding of them.

Ok Wilson, I can hear them yelling now.

 

[mrbiker]

Re: bump

There seems to be some confusion, or maybe it's just they way I am reading this. Nevertheless, the KLEEN Air system is not related to the fuel evaporative system except that it controls emissions. The two systems control entirely different emissions in entirely different ways and are not connected or dependent upon each other for proper operation.

Right you are - I was just putting it out there for laughs that the guy who sold me the bike took it off and told me he had removed the KLEEN air system - obviously, he didn't know what he was talking about.

Also, as I stated in another thread about the KLEEN air system, and at the risk of starting yet another debate, I am a clean air advocate in that I believe we can have these high performance machines and still help keep the air we all breath clean. Moreover, while I do not personally think these controls should be removed, disabled or modified, the choice is ultimately yours. While I will not claim to know everything, I believe my 20 + years specializing in emissions control at least gives me some knowledge of the systems and their function that I am more than willing to help others with the understanding of them.

What he really did do is put on a Muzzy full Ti and a PCIIIR. Since it had the Kleen air still on, it backfired like crazy - so that's why I took it off. Now it backfires about one a week instead of once every 10 minutes.

Just out of curiosity - how much cleaner do you think the bike is with KLEEN air still on?

Also, I'm a clean air advocate (in a big way) and didn't think it would make that much difference with mods that had been done.

Finally, your post was the most helpful I have found, and I'll be ordering the fuel separator parts to put back on in the next couple of days.

THANKS in a big way

m

 

[ZX1Ninja]

Since I have never seen any testing either offical or unofficial. I really don't know. As for the popping it really only means that fuel is being ignited in the exhaust. You could try chenging the map to solve it. But you need to have a good idea if the mix is rich or lean. My guess would be rich, but that's another story.

 

[Captain Beyond]

Re: bump



For those that asked or are interested;
The fuel separator is part of the fuel evaporative system and keeps liquid fuel from getting into the system. It dose so by using the pumping action on a diaphragm at the center of the separator, created by the vacuum of one carburetor/throttle body manifold tap. (multiple taps would create a smoother vacuum source and insufficient or no pumping action would be created. The area above the diaphragm acts as a storage chamber, albeit small, for the liquid that is pumped out during part throttle operation.

This is needed because the evaporative system was only designed for fuel vapors and cannot handle liquid fuel. I would have doubts as to why it was removed because it would only affect the drivability/power if it was defective and allowed liquid fuel to reach the evaporative system. Or, fuel (vapor or liquid) to be sucked into the intake system at the wrong time for vapor, (or not at all for liquid) or just plain cause a vacuum leak due to a torn diaphragm.

If you still have the charcoal canister, the separator should be there to prevent liquid fuel from getting into the canister and create even bigger problems. (Like allowing liquid fuel to siphon [not likely, but possible] into the canister and leaf out when it fills up through the fresh air vent). It is located in the tail section under the pillion seat.

The system is described in the factory service manual, reference page numbers 3-148 – 3-149 of manual #99924-1278-04.

I hope this helps mrbiker.

 

[Captain Beyond]

This helped me. Do these things (the separator) need to be changed every so often? Or just don't bother if it's working?