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Discussion Starter #1
I keep reading posts all the time about PCIII failures and problems with Dynojet. I also keep reading posts about guys reluctant to modify their bikes because of PCIII problems that appear to be very common and they have no other alternative. There is an alternative.

I don't know if it is because people associate Yosh with Suzuki or if it is the fact that the Yosh EMS is about 20% more expensive but hardly anyone ever asks about the Yosh EMS. Just so people know, Yosh makes the EMS for the ZX12. The same EMS model fits all years of the ZX12. I have never heard of any failures or problems with the Yosh EMS. The Yosh EMS has several add-on options available other than just adjusting the fuel and the timing. And any map that is available for the PCIII is easily converted over to the Yosh EMS. And last but not least, it is available for $428.

Just spreading the word.
 

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And one of the coolest add-ons is the 3 map flick of a switch-ability. Switch maps by hitting a button!
 

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Kevin, I was all set to go with Yosh until I found out that they are made
by the same company that does the pc3r. The only difference is that
they add some nifty add-ons in the software...

The biggest failure of both boxes occurs at high RPM and is called ignition
scatter...both of those boxes intercept the ignition signal, and send it back
out, even if the timing is unchanged... Since the boxes have to react so fast
at high RPM, they induce a condition known as ignition scatter, in which the
timing of the spark signal is not clear, and the spark wavers around from
10,000 RPM and up.

I will look up the site for the test facility, and post it later, but there is
another comapny that makes one for the Suzuki that DOES not have
this problem, called TEKA, and they will be releasing the ZX-12 box next
week.

You know that I'm dying for the box, as my EGTs are way off the scale,
and I'm not one to bs you. If you know something different about
TEKA, please let me know.

Thanks Kevin.

Jere
 

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I had a post up several months ago, where I found a tuner site that said the PC3R and Yosh are the same unit internally.

There was alot of dissension on this.

Some guys thought that since the guys that designed the pc3r now work at Yosh, and designed the Yosh box, that was where the similarities start and end.

Some other guys thought the Yosh box uses a 32bit chipset vs. the 16 bit PC3r.

Nobody seemed to be able to find any hard proof for or against the 2 being essentially the same.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
I remember reading something about where someone said they were made by the same company and also the thing about ignition scatter. I had my doubts about the validity of it though and have never seen anything to back it up. I would like to see the report and if there is one, I would be curious to hear Yosh's or Dynojet's response if confronted with it.

The thing about being made from the same company may or not be true, but the Yosh and the PCIII are definitely different as to the outside appearance and operation. The operational software is different as well but that is mainly to accomodate the add-ons. It functions the same way basically though but that is to be expected because they do basically the same thing.

The thing about the ignition scatter is what I have a hard time getting my mind around. I can't help but think that on my high compression bike with the timing advanced 4 degrees over stock and spinning at nearly 12,000 RPMs that if it had "ignition scatter", then it would grenade the motor in short order. And even if it didn't, wouldn't it SIGNIFICANTLY reduce hp?

They both have their drawbacks though as far as limits of adjustability. The Yosh being a little more adjustable than the PCIII but also a little more expensive. Its just that I haven't heard nearly so many bad stories about the Yosh but then again, not as many of them out there either.

Jere, I'm not that familiar with the TEKA or some of the others out there. I do know that there are some really neat exotic fuel/ignition management systems out there that are mucho expensive. Did you ever give any thought to the synching of the throttle bodies. If the middle two were out of synch with the outer two, wouldn't this cause different a/f mixtures and therefore cause different exhaust temps? Or even if the throttle bodies were in synch and it was caused by the fuel signal coming from the ECU, couldn't you adjust the throttle bodies to compensate. It would be a lot easier and cheaper than buying a very expensive exotic fuel management system. I think it would work but I'm not sure.
 

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Kevin, after getting the lecture from the Kawi engineer about how they
deliberately make the center two cylinders pull harder to "put tension on
the crank to reduce harmonic vibration" or something to that effect, I
stopped trying to make them run at the same temp. My concern is that
my EGT goes up to 1600 degrees, mostly in my mid-range, like when I'm
cruising steady at 80mph in top gear. Crap, I'll melt stuff at that
temp, so I do roll ons, etc, until I get this worked out. I was all set to
order the Yosh until I ran into Teka...now I'm sitting here with my
thumb stuck in my butt...

It's hard to tell which is the right one when the sales people pump you up
with their bs...that's why I like your feedback...but one thing is for sure,
my EGTs are waaaay out of control. Remember, that's whay I was confused
when you said the bike will run rich once the pipe is opened up...since
mine has no baffles at all (hey, what'd you say?) there is no restriction,
so it flows too good, and I'm lean as hell...

Jere

PS I'll do a search on Teka and see if I can find a link.
 

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I want a Akra or Hindle pipe so bad. But the drawback is the PC3 and I have heard of very few here with Yosh EMS.

I'm waiting and reading. This topic is the most important topic to me at this time. I'm a weekend rider. Some drag racing and limited resourses. That is why I am a member here.

Inform me, I'm listening.
 
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Well, I think if I was gonna go through it all again I'd probably go with the yosh setup. The extra features are a real drawcard for me, the different mapping for different gears and the 3way map switching option(who could turn down a bit of 3way action? :wink: ).
Maybe if/when the pc3r shits itself in the future I'll get one?
 

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I personaly love the Yosh EMS and after 26,000 miles of flawless performance, I would have to say it's well worth the extra $$$$$$. It even survived a high speed crash, an electrical fire from the oil in the conector, a couple dozen endos, atleast 8,000 wheelies and a few good top end runs. I don't care who the thing is made by cause it simply just works.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Jere,

With that open header your running, it will probably take a lot of playing around with it to get it stoich everywhere. From what it looks like, the TEKA is an updated version of the old Yosh FI tuner which is different from the Yosh EMS. How much does it cost I wonder? Doesn't sound like it will adjust the timing though.

They say the Yosh EMS and PCIII have the ignition scatter but I wonder how much a problem it really is. Also, I wonder if it is specific to Suzukis or does it apply to all makes. I sure don't see any significant power losses on mine, but the next time I dyno it, I will try it with and without the EMS hooked up. But one thing is for sure, it runs better in the low to midrange and my fuel is right on according to the O2 sensor. I am going to forward that article to Yosh and Dynojet and ask their comments. Will be interesting to see what they have to say. If they answer, I will post their response.
 

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Workman: Can you explain EGT a bit for people, Thanks.


I think many people have gone with PCIIIR over the Yosh, is due to map support. The Yosh came out late and more people had PCIIIR maps than anything else. Sites like ZX-12R.org are most likely to blame for this, due to the ease of map distribution. Many people do not like to screw around with their maps. They would rather get something that works out of the box. With all the PCIIIr maps available for the different pipes and mod combinations it was easier for people to go with the PCIIIR.
The other bonus for the PCIII is the Tuning Link software on the full option Dynojet Dyno's. You can get a full load controlled map done automatically with those centers.
The Yosh EMS was initially only offering maps for their pipes, they didn't offer base maps for other pipes. I am not sure if this has changed yet, but it is a bit of a pain if you don't even have a base map to start with.
It would be great to get more Yosh EMS maps and TEKA for that matter.

As far as holding off on the pipe because of the PCIIIR worries: I would get a Stepped Hindle or Akrapovic and you won't have to worry about needing a PCIIIR or Yosh EMS if you don't want to. My Akrapovic idled and ran great without the PCIIIR. However I do like the power curve and on/off response that I now have with the PCIIIR. But going with just the Akrapovic had no negative effects compared to stock. The Muzzy has had a reputation for poor idling with or without a PCIIIR. I would recommend the Stepped Hindle first and the Akrapovic second. The Hindle is the best price overall. But the workmanship of the Akrapovic is awesome, but I didn't have the option of the Stepped Hindle at the time.
 

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I have yet to pipe my 12 simply due to the fact I don't want to suffer the horrors I've heard about the PCIII. The TEKA system looks promising. I'm looking forward to hearing real-world results before I consider taking the next step in performance on my 12.

This thread is worthy of a "sticky", in my eyes.
 

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This is a very good read... Thanks for all the great info... I have Muzzy Full..and a pc3r... i hate the idle and that stumble around 3k.. {pilot jet mod soon} But im happy to say that my pc has worked great so far?...about 4 months so far...knock on wood.... Teka thingy...looks good... Akra pipe... might switch....but thee are so many mods dont know what to do first... anybody wanna buy a muzzy full w/ Ti can?
 

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MICRON

:roll: i have been telling you guys for a year now that micron is the shit. my zx12r 2000 with micron full system and pc3r with stock gearing beats other zx12r bad. akro with custom mapped pc3r,muzzy with pc3r,and2 stock zx12r with 17 thooth front sprockets.....killer
 

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Re: MICRON

zx12mark said:
:roll: i have been telling you guys for a year now that micron is the shit. my zx12r 2000 with micron full system and pc3r with stock gearing beats other zx12r bad. akro with custom mapped pc3r,muzzy with pc3r,and2 stock zx12r with 17 thooth front sprockets.....killer

No offense intended but..all I've heard about Micron is that they suffer from poor build quality and fall apart when put on 12R's. Are you getting any nasty vibration noise from yours yet?
 

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as good as it gets

:!: check out a new system in the box. this is as good as it gets. call them up.ask for sam.he`ll tell you why. these pipes are a work of art.take a micron can apart.you will not beleive how good a design they came up with. 10000 miles on mine. still deep and mellow without rattles. have`nt even had to repack it.....killer
 
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