first results with the Yosh EMS on the '02 model...

5551 Views 27 Replies 10 Participants Last post by workman1000, May 2, 2002

workman1000

Discussion Starter · Apr 28, 2002

Here it is. I definitely made the right decision with the Yosh EMS. It is very easy to install, a 10 year-old could do it. The software is very simple, straightfoward, and easy to use. You dont need to be a computer engineer to build a map or manipulate the timing. The sofware is adjustable while the bike is running and some of the advanced options are amazing. And the advanced options include a clutchless shifter, 3-way adjustable map switch that mounts on the handlebars and you can switch maps on the fly, and programmable shift light. Took fifteen minutes to install on the bike. Took fifteen minutes to build my first map(with the info I already knew about my fuel mixture). Took fifteen minutes to hook up the computer to the bike, download the map I built, and get it all running and on the road. And I had no idea what I was doing when I started.

I took it for a test ride after I loaded my first map and the difference wasn't much at first.(I started with some VERY conservative fuel adjustments) Went back and plugged it back in and then made some bigger changes(took 15 minutes) and then back on the road. This time the change was dramatic. The fuel curve leveled out much better and the flat spot at 4-4500(too lean at 3/4 to full throttle) was totally gone(I added 20% fuel at 4-4500 from 60% to full throttle). You could feel the difference in acceleration at that point dramatically different than before. Felt like a different bike. Much smoother power deliver without the surges in power. Wheelies seemed easier too. Went back and did one more adjustment on the fuel and timing. Seems to respond better with a little more advance down low and a little less fuel. I originally started with 0% change on both below 2500RPM. I am sure I will be adjusting the map on this thing many times before I am through experimenting. But with a 3-way map switch on the bars, it makes it easy to load three different maps to play with and compare them on the fly. I am ordering the map switch tomorrow. Man this thing is fun to play with.

By the way, the Yosh EMS is the same for the '02 as it is for the earlier models. It says '00-'01 on the package, but Yosh gauranteed me that it was the same for the '02 and the connections were all the same. The way it works is that it alters the stock ECU signal after the fact. Plugs inline with OEM connectors. No splicing of anything. Dynojet told me that the PCIIIr was different for the '02 than for the earlier models, thats why it wasn't available. Specifically told me that the connections were different on the '02. Guess what, the Yosh EMS fit just fine and the connections are the same as the '00-'01. Either the PCIIIr hooks up a different way than the Yosh EMS or they lied to me about it. But the Yosh works the same on all ZX12's.

So far, I have nothing but good things to say about the Yosh EMS. Nothing but bad things to say about my limited dealings with Dynojet(PCIIIr). Also, the Yosh EMS definitely fits the '02 and is available NOW! It is marginally more expensive than the PCIIIr but it has many more options. From everything I have heard about the PCIIIr, I believe the Yosh is a superior product. This has been my experience with the Yosh EMS on the '02 model so far. If I can think of anything negative to say I will post it but nothing but 4 star reviews at this point.

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Tearinitup

· #21 · May 1, 2002

First of all, I am not on the sales/tech support side of this company. I am in engineering but I do agree with nearly all that you have said.

Dynojet is on these boards so there would be no reason to forward the info as they have probably already read it. I am not here as a rep for Dynojet. I am here as a zx12r rider but I happen to have a little info on the Power Commander subject that I would be willing to share with other zx12 owners if they were interested.

I don't have a direct line into what is happening with the 02 zx12 but my guess is that the box may end up being the same but we are not sure of that yet. Its all in the DETAILS. When we have gone over every function in our box and theirs then we will release it to the public knowing (not just putting on the bike once and assuming that it works if that bike runs) that NOTHING is going to bite the end user that we could have caught up front. I will let you know if I hear anything definitive. As far as other tech info.....what would you like to know?

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· #22 · May 1, 2002

Tearinitup, do you know if there is a difference between the Dynojet PC3

and the K&N PC3? Also for the guy's who own the K&N model, can they get

their PC3's fixed under warranty by Dynojet?

If you know or see Travis, tell him his work is very much appreciated. He is

the reason I argue with these fella's about Dynojet's service.<img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/images/emoticons/happy.gif ALT="

">

Stupid hurts.

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workman1000

Discussion Starter · #23 · May 1, 2002

Thanks for the reply Tearinitup. Not that it matters in my case anymore, but I am still curious as I know many others are. My questions are these:

1) Are the connections the same? Someone at Dynojet told me they weren't. If they aren't the same as before, what has changed and why did they change? In other words, is there a reason the earlier PCIIIr for the '00-'01 won't physically fit on the '02?

2) If they do use the same connectors which I was specifically told they didn't, then other than the maps, what has changed? There are only two ways that the PCIIIr or any other engine management system can work. Either they supplement the factory map by adding or subtracting fuel and timing, or they totally replace the factory map all together and starts with its own map as a baseline for making changes. Does the PCIIIr use the factory map in any way or does it completely replace the stock ECU? The techs I spoke to at Dynojet refused to say anything other than the '02 is different(whatever that means). Different how? I know the '02 has a different factory map in the ECU. Thats why I want to know how the PCIIIr works. Does it supplement the factory map or replace it altogether? Does it disable the stock ECU?

3) If the current PCIIIr will bolt up to the '02, and it works by supplementing the factory map, then is there going to be new features on the PCIIIr for the '02. In other words, is the delay in the release because of hardware changes, or software chages. If the PCIIIr for the '02 works the same as the '00-'01 by supplementing the factory ECU(I am assuming since no one will give me a straight answer), then is it just a matter of building the right map. Again I am guessing, but is the delay because Dynojet is trying to build some maps specifically for the '02?

4) And this is the question that has cause me the most frustration and after numerous calls(literally a dozen or more), still can't get a straight answer. Is there any reason someone can't take a PCIIIr for a '00-'01 model and bolt it to the '02 and build their own custom map? If you can't, then I want to know exactly the reason why.

I feel that these are all legitimate questions to ask a company if you are looking into buying their product. My frustration stems from my inability, after many tries, to get these questions answered. These are very straightforward questions and the answers should be straightforward as well. I'm not looking for sofware algorithms or anything that technical, just some straight answers. Thanks again for your concern Tearinitup. If you can answer these question for me then Dynojet should put you in charge of customer relations and give you a big pay raise.

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· #24 · May 1, 2002

I don't work for Dynojet, but I'll throw in some chump change here!

"Are the connections the same? Someone at Dynojet told me they weren't. If they aren't the same as before, what has changed and why did they change? In other words, is there a reason the earlier PCIIIr for the '00-'01 won't physically fit on the '02?"

The PCIII/PCIIIr connects to the 12R in the same manner as the Yosh EMS. If the Yosh EMS units that connect to the 2000-2001 models will connect to (and work on) the 2002 model 12R, then it stands to reason that the Power Commander will hook up to the 2002 model as well. Question is will it work right on the 2002?

"There are only two ways that the PCIIIr or any other engine management system can work. Either they supplement the factory map by adding or subtracting fuel and timing, or they totally replace the factory map all together and starts with its own map as a baseline for making changes. Does the PCIIIr use the factory map in any way or does it completely replace the stock ECU?"

The Power Commander works in conjunction with the factory ECU (like the Yosh EMS).

Are you aware that Muzzy's has been using the PCIIIr on the 2002 model for several weeks?

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· #25 · May 1, 2002

Interesting........ Muzzy's lists the PCIII and PCIIIr for the 2002 model on their website - the part numbers are different than the 200-2001 Power Commanders. Don't know what's up with that.

www.muzzys.com/catalog/jet.html

www.muzzys.com/141204-02/index.html

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workman1000

Discussion Starter · #26 · May 2, 2002

As for the part about the connections. I figured they were the same. But when a company tech rep tells you they are different and "swears" that they are, what are you supposed to believe? This is called mis-information. I hope he wouldn't out and out lie about it and if he wasn't for sure then why the hell would he tell me that and swear to it?

As far as the PCIIIr supplementing the factory map, that is also what I figured. But once again, when I asked a company tech rep(different one this time), he said it completely takes the place of the factory map. I doubted that it actually did and when I pressed him about the details, the response was that the earlier PCIIIr was incompatible with the '02. He would not expand on it further than that.

Yes I am aware that Muzzy has been using a PCIIIr for several weeks on the '02. I am also aware that they are different part numbers between the '00-'01 and the '02. This is my guess. There is probably no difference between the PCIIIr for the '00-'01 and the '02 as far as the hardware and even the basic sofware. My guess is the difference lies with the maps supplied. Dynojet probably didn't want to release it until they had a chance to test the new maps on the '02 model. That way when they offer it for sale, they can supply maps with it specifically for use with the '02. First I guess they don't realize that many people don't use the supplied maps and also they must not realize that some of us are competent enough to build our own maps. They can supply all the maps in the world with it but most people who are serious about tuning their bike correctly will build their own anyway. If they would have told me that everything connects the same and works the same, just they don't have any maps available yet, I would have been perfectly willing to buy one and then start working on my own map. But with the mis-information(I'm being kind), I sure wasn't going to buy one not knowing if it would even connect the same. All I ever wanted was some truthful and acurate information to base my decision on.

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Tearinitup

· #27 · May 2, 2002

1) Are the connections the same? Someone at Dynojet told me they weren't. If they aren't the same as before, what has changed and why did they change? In other words, is there a reason the earlier PCIIIr for the '00-'01 won't physically fit on the '02?

The connections appear to be the same. A 00-01 Power Commander should physically fit on a 02.

2) If they do use the same connectors which I was specifically told they didn't, then other than the maps, what has changed? There are only two ways that the PCIIIr or any other engine management system can work. Either they supplement the factory map by adding or subtracting fuel and timing, or they totally replace the factory map all together and starts with its own map as a baseline for making changes. Does the PCIIIr use the factory map in any way or does it completely replace the stock ECU? The techs I spoke to at Dynojet refused to say anything other than the '02 is different(whatever that means). Different how? I know the '02 has a different factory map in the ECU. Thats why I want to know how the PCIIIr works. Does it supplement the factory map or replace it altogether? Does it disable the stock ECU?

It definitely modifies the stock map. This allows us to keep the general characteristics that the oem was going after while fixing fuel issues generally generated in the aftermarket.

3) If the current PCIIIr will bolt up to the '02, and it works by supplementing the factory map, then is there going to be new features on the PCIIIr for the '02. In other words, is the delay in the release because of hardware changes, or software chages. If the PCIIIr for the '02 works the same as the '00-'01 by supplementing the factory ECU(I am assuming since no one will give me a straight answer), then is it just a matter of building the right map. Again I am guessing, but is the delay because Dynojet is trying to build some maps specifically for the '02?

I don't know the specifics of the delay. We will definitely have maps for the 02 when we release it.

4) And this is the question that has cause me the most frustration and after numerous calls(literally a dozen or more), still can't get a straight answer. Is there any reason someone can't take a PCIIIr for a '00-'01 model and bolt it to the '02 and build their own custom map? If you can't, then I want to know exactly the reason why.

Physically you could plug it in, and I have heard that muzzy is running them so my guess it you could do exactly that. However our issue is that if you take a 00-01 Power Commander and plug it into a 02 and some thing doesn't line up.... ie smokes the Power Commander or worse yet your ecu, should dynojet warrantee your unit, I don't think so. That is why we haven't release it yet. We can not assure you that EVERYTHING is ok.

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workman1000

Discussion Starter · #28 · May 2, 2002

Thank you Tearinitup. Those were exactly the answers I wanted to hear. That is good information for anyone considering a PCIIIr. I understand totally that Dynojet wouldn't honor the warranty on something used on a non-tested application if things went bad. I appreciate your straight answers. This has been driving me nuts and had me a little bent out of shape. Thanks for not taking it personal and answering my questions honestly. Dynojet needs to put you in the PR department and double your salary!

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