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Discussion Starter #1
Sorry to bring this subject up again. I was going to speak with Ted but have decided to put it on the board. I live in the UK and have one of the first 2000 model 12's. Ever since I have had the bike I have had problems with the fuel injection (surging, as they call it). First Kawasaki change the ECU for a high altitude version, still no better. The latest attempt was to replace the bank of throttle bodies (at a cost of £1600 if purchased) still no better. I am not complaininmg about the response of my dealer or Kawasaki for that matter but I cannot believe I am the only one who is complaining about this problem. I would have thought after all this time they would know how to fix this problem. I have read more than 1 post on this site with the same problem, but I think they were all US models. If anyone in the UK knows of a fix from Kawasaki or one that they have come accross themselves can you please let me know. If someone doesn't know what I am talking about I will give a brief description. At low revs and low speeds the bike seems to hunt, at greater speeds with small amounts of throttle opening you would think the fuel was bieng switched on and off. You can roll the throttle off from about 6,000 rpm then when the revs get to about 5200 rpm you would think that the throttle was opening up again, it seems as though the bike picks up speed when you are actually closing the throttle. Any replies on this matter would be greatfully received.
Coach.

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I asked my local shop about the High altitude ECU they said no such thing all the same... No other part numbers listed for such an Item... I don't know just what I was told.....

If her eyes aren't crossed and one eye lid flapping like a hummingbird wing your not quite there yet...</p>
 

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Richard, my dealer said there was a high altitude ECU, and they would change out no cost if I so desired. Just what I was told...

Coach, I think the reason most have not been complaining about the problem is we've gone to aftermarket exhausts and PCIII's. The PCIII has helped smooth out my bike considerably, even though I don't have an optimum map. As soon as I get my new filters, I plan to have it dyno tuned to see if I can make it even better. Do yo have a PCIII?


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That strange...<img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/images/emoticons/laugh.gif ALT=":lol"> I wonder if Kawi really knows... Theres only one on Kawasaki.com part fische.... I would like to know this answer though...

If her eyes aren't crossed and one eye lid flapping like a hummingbird wing your not quite there yet...</p>
 

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NAAAA...There's nothing wrong with the Throttle body set up or the clutch on the 2000/2001 ZX12s...

Just buy a 2002 and you will see that there is nothing wrong!!!...All the problems have been fixed!!!OOOOPS, did I say they fixed the problem???...I meant they made it better!!!

Nobody really complains anymore because of the hours and hours that we put into tuning the PC3/3r, Muzzy box, or Yoshimura box...And still have the 2500rpm stumble, but we live with it because Kawasaki doesnt want to admit there is a problem with the FI and clutch!!!


CrotchRocket

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Hi Coach,
Whereabouts in the UK are you? I'm near Reading.
When I was running mine in (also a '00 model) it did surge on the odd occassion, but nothing like what you are describing.
It has always hunted, usually by about a couple of hundred RPM, again not a lot to write home about. The throttle was always "snatchy and difficult" below 3,000 RPM, especially when cold.
After fitting my Hindle, BMC Air filters and PC111R the idle hunt got worse and from 2,800 RPM it surges upwards as if I have opened the throttle. Above 3,000 RPM it is faultless, perfectly smooth and linear.
I am happy to trade this idiosynchrasy for the response above 3K.
I am in the process of getting the Pilot jet mod sorted out, that is supposed to sort out the idle hunting.
I'll let you know how I get on with that. Additionally, I have checked out my synchronisation of the butterflies and they were slightly out, I adjusted them and the hunting reduced slightly.
When I rode MrBadgerishere's 12 earlier this year, his was better than mine at idle and no surge whatsoever.
I think this one needs to go to the rocket scientists on the board!
Regards
Ted

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Discussion Starter #8
Ted, I live in Northumberland.
Looks to me that anyone who has complained is in the same boat as me -no further forward!. I find it really hard to believe that Kawasaki has not found a solution when you can eliminate it with an aftermarket part. Does the power commander on a bog standard bike make all the difference?
Coach.

</p>Edited by: <A HREF=http://pub56.ezboard.com/bkawasakizx12r.showLocalUserPublicProfile?login=coach>coach</A> at: 9/2/02 11:19:29 am
 

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There is most definitely a high altitude ECU. Mine has it. My understanding is that it is exactly the same as the standard ECU, however the prom chip is replaced or the flash memory upgraded with new hard coded fuel and timing settings. I have never been able to get a straight answer on that specific question.

I'll throw a wrench into this though....

When I had my PC3R, I was running a zero map. Which as we all know should mean your stock ECU is doing all the mapping and the PC3R is just a $400 computer sitting under the seat, right?

After I sold the PC3R, like right now, my bike is getting 7-9 mpg better gas mileage consistently, and is showing a little daylight under the front around 7300 rpm instead of the prior 7800 rpm.

Also, the guys riding behind me have not been complaining about a rich smell of unburned Arab crude as much.

This one blows my mind. jp help me out here, when does zero != zero?, as in zero map.

This is freakin' me out, man.

"Here, hold my trophy while I kiss your girlfriend."</p>
 
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that i dont know.....
my sense about it is that is not so.....

the problem with that idea is ...........
guys in denver would never be able to ride their bikes
cross country to san diego........ vice versa

most all vehicles have EFI
of some type or the other
they have sensors which allow for many different scenarios
otherwise you might not get to ride more than a few
hundres miles away from home
most all EFI systems compensate for altitude

if the engineers have done theier jobs properly
& the sensors are working correctly.....
really shouldnt present a problem......

when youy think about it EFI systems globally
would have be number in the hundreds......
or they have a design latitude so that you cab ride
pretty much anywhere.........
a clear advantage over carburetors

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Oh zed racer. the high altitude ECU is alive and well. This, any good Kaw shop can confirm for you.

But I think you missed the point I was trying to make. If the PC3R running a zero map does nothing, then why the changes I noted above???


"Here, hold my trophy while I kiss your girlfriend."</p>
 

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I had a hesitation /surging around 3000rpms and also got my box switched.Seemed to work for a while,but it was doing it again a couple weeks later. Not nearly as bad though.My dealer gave me no problems at all about the switch.I told them I found out about it in here,they made a call right in front of me,and told me they would have it in a couple days.My 12 still does'nt like 3000 rpms to this day,I just live with it 'cause it runs great everywherte else.

Jeff

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I find this curious. The only place mine idle hunts is, at idle, and that is minimal.

Have you guys (that are experiencing this) run some Techron through to clean the injectors?

Just a thought...

"Here, hold my trophy while I kiss your girlfriend."</p>
 
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what do you do at sea level san diego
or daytona......bonneville or some places
that are actually below sea level

part of the problem is the inertia of the air & the
firing order...(an old chevy problem)
in essence i've wanted to talk to BEAR
to see if i could get longer staggered stax
in a lot of cases they work better(that i can explain some other time)

the hunt surge & lope probably have more to
do with you sensors not getting a proper read
or ther ecu not making a proper evaluation
if you drove to san diego...... u need another ecu...???
that danged 12 dont kno where its at...!!!

in addition you are makin a case for the
exup type back pressure exhaust devices seen on
the honda & yamaha
the very purpose to alleviate the very things we are talking about

you have throotle bodies , ports, & cams
designed to produce 20-30 more hp easily
if you hogged them out further the engine would fall down
it would only be good for wide open running

when the first busa was built for road racing
was reading that article just the other nite
they didnt even use the EFI..... was tooooooo ifffy
coming up out of a corner..... was like a light switch
.........all or nothing
they actually achieved more hp & rideabilty with the carbs

at any rate you could take a line of 12's & the
symptoms & the fixes wouldnt work on them all


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