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Discussion Starter #1
I really rely on the vast experience of the members of this board, so I'd like to ask a question and hope to get your advice and thoughts here.
I really enjoyed the recent thread on what do you need to work on, in fact I printed it out to read and reread. I hope this post will create a valuable thread also.
I really feel at my best (however little that best may be in reality) when I can ride in open turns where I can see through the turn to what is coming at me, road surface, what's on the berm etc. I don't feel that confident in the more usual, it seems, blind turns, cornering around cliffs, trees, etc, where I have no idea what's up ahead, or coming at me, what's on or in the road. I know that in this case, you're supposed to leave a good margin of safety, I try the Hough line (where you go deeper into the corner to see what's going on ahead before turning), I've read The Pace, etc. But the bottom line is, when I can't see around the turn, I'm pretty slow!! I know I'm probably pretty slow anyway, so let's say, "slower". Anyway, I read about Deals Gap, ride some pretty twisty roads myself, and I'm pretty envious of being able to really have fun under those conditions.
Yesterday, I went out riding, besides the normal decreasing radius turn or two, two cars were over the yellow line, a couple of patches of gravel, a dead animal all were waiting around the bend. These aren't much of a problem at conservative speeds, but as soon as I pick up the pace...<img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/images/emoticons/eek.gif ALT=":eek">
I sometimes go out and there are guys dragging their knees around curves (damn, I wish I could do that!), while I'm trying to peek around the curves maintaining enough accelleration to be smooth but not very exciting I admit. I have so much fun in twisty, hilly open corners that I do "get it" as far as the joy of cornering, but I just don't have the confidence that people ahead are doing what they should, the road's clear etc. I'm about to start some regular lessons at the track next month so I know that will help my riding in general but I can't help but wonder if I'll be pretty much the same when it comes to curves I can't see around! Any comments, advice would be greatly appreciated. I'd just like to hear your thoughts regarding this, and your "Way" of riding in twisty, blind, and sometimes unfamiliar terrain.
I'd also like to hear your "mindset" or attitude in these conditions. When I read about some of the rides posted here, I feel like I'm missing something. Thanks a million, all of you!
ZX12eR

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The guys who ride around blind turns on the street, full speed dragging their knees have one thing you don't, ....a death wish. The track is one thing, the street is another. When you ride like that on the street, you are taking the risk that no cars will be turning wide, gravel, animals, ect. The guys who do it are not neccesarily better riders, they just don't care if they get hurt or killed. They are not magicians and they WILL crash and WILL get hurt when the unexpected happens, and the unexpected WILL happen sooner or later. I'm not saying that you can't ride fast on the street, its just the safety margin has to be much more than on the track. Take the blind corners deep and wide and stay off the yellow line on the inside of the turn, at least this way, you have a chance at survival when that car is coming the other way turning wide. Live to ride another day. This is the biggest problem with group rides. Everyones ego won't let them be the slowest and people ride beyond their skill level or beyond the limits of fast but safe street riding. The stories you always here about bikes going off a cliff, high siding around turns, ect., usually involve a group ride or at least, a few riders. Very rarely do you hear about a wreck where a guy is out cruising alone and loses control of his bike. This is because when you are alone, your survival instinct speaks louder than your ego. Scraping your knee in a blind corner on a street ride is not a measure of your manhood and neither is coming in first place on a public street roadrace. Its all about riding fast within your limits, not wrecking, and not getting hurt. Any squid can go out there and push it until they fly off the rode or smash into something. Its a good rider who can go out, drive reasonably fast, have fun, and come back everyday without broken plastic and broken bones.

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What Workman specified.

Not just a barbarian, a great barbarian!</p>
 

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What Workman said...

and you do not have to have a lot of speed to get a knee down, keep a smooth line and pratice,
I have some roads I pratice on, but I always ride them slowly checking for hazards, then pick up the pace a little,
that does not keep the cages and animals from joining me though, so be safe...

Official BAM Club Member



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Workman said it good. Look this is very simple. If YOU are not comfortable going faster through a particular type of turn, don't do it PERIOD. It's not worth it to be 10mph faster in a turn just to get splatted or wash out. Blind turns are the enemy, treat them as such. I've ridden deals gap and the surrounding area several times and there are a lot of blind turns down there, some I haul ass through and some I don't, the difference is the one's I haul ass through I know. I'd say of the 318 turns on the Gap, 100 of em' are blind. While it is never safe to be railing on blind turns, there are differing degrees of danger. ON the gap there are no side roads, or stores or other dangers like that that could cause you grief so the blind turns there are of a moderate danger. But I've been on some roads that have homes and business on them and they have blind turns that I would NEVER be hauling ass around.

Use your best judgement Zx12eR, that's what will keep you safe. I'd rather see a man practicing his cornering ability on nice open turns then on blind one's.

It's a free country brother. </p>
 

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My advice to anyone asking the question you did is to print out the response that Workman gave you.....because he is 100% accurate. Best answer to any question I have ever seen on this board. Any responsible rider should not push it until they are VERY familiar with the road and surroundings they are playing on.

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I know some people will ride crazy fast through blind corners I wont. But if you are one of those people please just first do a slow paced ride of the turns there and back to look for stuff that may be on the road. Then the next time through at least you know the road conditions.
This will not even help sometimes. I went to a one hour class on the same route I always did. On the way home same way I always go (not a blind corner either) the bike suddenly just goes crazy sliding everywhere. Barely do I keep her upright. Somebody pulled up to me to check that I was allright then told me how ten minutes earlier there had been a wreck. You see the cops had moved the car out of the way and even cleaned the road so it looked clean. But the road itself was still slick for a motorcycle from the oil from the cars.

Basically things will happen, but try to stack the odds in your favor.

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There are some great attitudes on riding here.I can't really add anything to those responses.

Unfortunetly,almost all of my good twisties are full of blind corners.I've been woken up a time or two!Cars pulling out,roadkill,etc. I always(well,usually) leave a margin for surprise.You can have a blast and stay alive too.The guys I ride with call me crazy 'cause of the fast riding I do, and I'm holding back a few percent just in case.A good example would be making sure I can upright the bike and brake hard in a hurry. If your going so fast that you cannot do this,your really pressin' your luck.

I never clicked the "how to improve my riding" post,gotta do that.

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1) Always ride within 75% of your ability. Mistakes happen exponentially above 80%.

2) Never underestimate Newtons Law.

3) Never judge your skills against another riders. You are are not him, he is not you. Just because Joe X drags a puck on blind turn #1, doesn't mean it's the right way to do it. It just means that on that particular morning he is doing it. Don't make it more than it is, and don't think he is a better rider than you. He may be, he may not be. His priorities and yours may be worlds apart.

I thought workmans comment about you rarely hear of a solo rider dumping it interesting. I do my fastest riding when I am alone. I always tell my wife the route I am taking, and keep to it. I don't wreck, and I don't excercise the survival responses. I just concentrate on the curves and go to my limit. If you are hitting the binders in a curve, you don't have your mojo that day.

Workman is giving some good advice. Just remember, a good day is a day you roll the bike back into the garage and aren't on the phone to Ron Ayers that night.

- Blitz



"Here, hold my trophy while I kiss your girlfriend."</p>
 

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Way behind OKD, Denver, and Mad Mal. Just ahead of Kawracer, Skeeter, and Blitz. <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/images/emoticons/laugh.gif ALT=":lol"> We don't have any twisty's N.Dak.

Let up for a second, and that's where you finish!!</p>
 

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1. First off, the fastest guys usually have tattered leathers and bikes. They've thrown'em down the road a time or two just as I have. Now it's up to you. Is it worth it to you to go a little faster?
2. I and my riding buddies usually make a spotting run prior to going hard ( a relative term) around the bends. I don't care what anyone else says. I want to see it for myself...it's my bike, my life possibly at stake! Then, the longer we ride that road the faster we go.
3. It's understood that we all go at different paces at different times. Sometimes, I'm fastest, other times I'm not. So noone rides "over their head" on a given day. But we all look out for each other's safety.
4. Tires, brakes and even you fade as the ride wears on so keep that in mind. These all lead to my little get-off a couple of months back.
5. It's your bike, your money paid for it and you should enjoy it the way you want to. I don't care if someone has 2" wide chicken strips or none. I don't care what your knee pucks look like. It shouldn't matter to you either. Just enjoy it.
6. They'll always be somebody faster, somebody slower and somebody deader than you. Remember that every time you ride.

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Top advice from everyone,
I have 5 limits, when I reach the first one, I back off and live to ride another day. If it doesn't feel right, don't do it, listen to your senses.
Anyway, my limits are as follows;
Traffic, Weather, Bike, Road conditions and more importantly, how you feel.
As Blitz said, it is always nice to put your bike back in the garage after a good riding session.
Regards
Ted

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As Keith Code says, you have $10.00 dont spend it all in one turn!!!...Which means that on the street there are too many distractions!!!

RIDE SAFE GUYS!!!


CrotchRocket

" I just live my life a 1/4 mile at a time "</p>
 

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Ride your own pace. And If your leading, Switch off, let someone else lead. If ya get tired stop and rest. Eat well, Don't have a hang over, Don't drink and ride. High performance bike. Be cautious on new road's, Do a slow run then build speed up. 75% is a good rule.

I can honstly say, I ride faster alone also. Distraction's take speed away. Cause error.

I must not be that fast though, Cause All I ever come up on is Harley's and two up sportbike's. When I run down a Gixxer 1000 or 750, Or a ZX9R I'll let you all know.



If Jessie Jame's had a ZX12R I'd ride with him.

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12er,
Your on the right track (so to speak). Go do track school. Find out how what your bike is designed to do. Try Kieth Code if you can. Don't play the Bullshit game of following your buddies. To many factors on the road, to much ego to deal with. The bad thing about street riding is that as your skills improve your ego gets in the way of using them I am soooo tired of people giving advice to riders trying to improve their skills. They are the ones that have the insurance claim phone numbers memorized.

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Keith Code is my GoD!

I own and have read cover to cover every book he has written. They have saved my life. Even if you put 10% of what he says to use on the street.. you will be 100% better off. What I wouldnt give to go to one of his schools!!! I'm a little far away <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/images/emoticons/frown.gif ALT=":(">

I have been riding for about 18 years... and IMHO group riding is more dangerous than anything I have ever been alone on... or on a track. You may be able to control your own machine, but you never know what your buddie(s) are going to do, even if you have ridden with them a while.

My current group is relatively ego-free, so we just ride for fun. Even the newbie riders are safer to be around than most of the curb monkeys that think they are Nicky Hadens clone or something. Pick your riding partners carefully!

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Discussion Starter #18
I REALLY appreciate each and every response---I really got a lot out of this thread. Its helpful to hear the common thread (heheh) in all the replies. I'm definitely going to print all this out to have!
You know, my wife is very supportive of my riding; she often says that she's counting on the fact that I want to see her again to help me be safe while I'm out. And she knows I'm no angel <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/images/emoticons/wink.gif ALT=";)"> . It is good to have such a good reason to make it back home.
It seems like that line right above 75% is awfully tempting though sometimes. These bikes are tough to ride slow (and enjoy it). I really appreciate you all taking the time to respond to my question. This list is the best! Thanks!
ZX12eR

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I love riding whatever twisty sections of road I can find.

I am not the fastest rider, nor the slowest rider you
will find. I fit in about the middle.

I love tearin' up pavement, but am cautious about
when and where I do it.

I don't drag knees around blind corners, or on unfamiliar
roads. I maintain a quick pace, but leave room for
error.

I know how to control my bike.
I know how to keep it in control.
I do not ride with my ego.
I have been in over my head and my practice kept me
from panicing and losing control.
And if I am not into it on a given day, I just back off
a bit and enjoy the ride.

I am always trying to become a better rider.
I work on something everytime I ride.

Remember, you can always go slow into a corner,
and fast out. Fast in and fast out doesn't always
work.


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least make sure that those you leave behind are not burdened with your burial expense. I suggest a insurance policy & in fact will pay the premiums for you if I am named the beneficiary???

I can't think of anything more ignorant then running into a blind curve fast!

Your the type wanna be that has contributed to the decline of our sport, Deals Gap, limited hoese power etc.

And if asshole like you continues to ride our cost will GO up!!!

Do us & yourself a favor & take up golf!!!


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