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Hello all, I'm new to the site but have been around it a bit and I haven't found anything about how to map a pcm v with degreed cams, .276/.280 cams that were installed I believe 3 degrees. Before putting the power commander 5 on it ran great but with a almost straight threw exhaust, lol, it's got 15mm of packing sounds great, with filters and engine work I wanted to map it to run cooler and smoother, a little more power is always welcome but not necessary, its a bullet!! I loaded a zero map into it, got it off fleabay and seems yo work as is supposed too. Last time I rode it it ran great until 8K, it acted up under full tilt but aside that, no flat spot anywhere where as without it it had one between 2-3krpms but fumbles at 8k. I put some ethanol out in the tank, that could be causing the issue. I'm debating on getting the auto-tune for afr values or taking it to a dyno and power mapping it. I know enough about this I have an automotive degree, lol, from 2002!! lot has changed but this is not hard to me. No one near me can flash the ecu so I got the power commander 5, should I go with auto-tune or a dyno shop? Also, anyone have the air pressure sensor hooked to their pcm? Is that like a must do thing, tie into the intake air pressure sensor with the power commander 5? any and all help is greatly appreciated!!!! Thanks any and all tips are welcome, when I got it it was lowered set up to drag race I raised it back up cause I like curvse too!!! thanks again
 

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personally id get it on dyno as the fueling can be way out and going autotune route you can/will lose your licence as the autotune needs to be in the cells long enough for autotune to work ...if the stubbling is at 8k with full throttle whats it like with 80% or 60% ie backing throttle off in them areas can give you a clue .....could be leaning out or too rich ,you can feel it of the throttle ...a zero map is same as stock btw if its lean add fuel in at 7750 rpm at 100% and 80% say 10 points in cell and see how you go
as for 2k to 3k I believe they overfuel in them cells so worth taking 20 points in them cells and see how you go
ps your exhaust system with end can or lack of it can give you symptons you describe
theres no need to run pc5 to to air pressure sensor at all ,the sensor just fine tunes fueling and gives ecu map base settings to for load etc
 

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personally id get it on dyno as the fueling can be way out and going autotune route you can/will lose your licence as the autotune needs to be in the cells long enough for autotune to work ...if the stubbling is at 8k with full throttle whats it like with 80% or 60% ie backing throttle off in them areas can give you a clue .....could be leaning out or too rich ,you can feel it of the throttle ...a zero map is same as stock btw if its lean add fuel in at 7750 rpm at 100% and 80% say 10 points in cell and see how you go
as for 2k to 3k I believe they overfuel in them cells so worth taking 20 points in them cells and see how you go
ps your exhaust system with end can or lack of it can give you symptons you describe
theres no need to run pc5 to to air pressure sensor at all ,the sensor just fine tunes fueling and gives ecu map base settings to for load etc
Ooh wow, thanks man !! I didn't know how long it had to be at said rpm for the auto tune to pickup the data it needs and yes I'd lose my DL quick here where I live. I've played cat and mouse with them enough. I really appreciate the reply, it doesn't act up like it does under 100% but I can tell it's acting up. In theory it should run like the PCM isn't in it with a zero map. I'm going to hook up a screen 2 it to watch for any changes to the adjustment table, where it tells if the power Commander is making any changes. I didn't take into account the higher compression Pistons, camshafts, to and many of the mods just like when I put that ethanol out stuff in it I'm wondering if that's upset in the bike. It ran like a bat out of hell and the thing just pulls harder the faster you go, so long as this PCM isn't making any adjustments it should run off the stock ECU which is good but there's a lot more in it. I'm learning more about the auto tune, I was going to use it because I thought it was a must have in order to in put a afr and the PMC v run at that afr. I know afr isn't the best way to tune for power but it does tell you if you are still in the safe zone lol. You have to have a Auto tune unit to run off or change the afr right? I can't just install a wideband sensor and hook it to the Power Commander V and start changing air-fuel ratios correct you have the auto tune box right? I really appreciate your help and reply, got a lot to think on, I'm going to get the forks rebuild, I want to stiffen the front up, I have it a little taller than stock being I'm 6'5 and like to hang a curve, I'm debating on whether to add some RaceTech springs or the valve from RaceTech. Anyone else added RaceTech goodies in their bike? If so what did you get and how has it affected the bike? I put some RaceTech springs in a Suzuki slingshot and it went from sluggish in the corners to being like it was on rails! Very stiff and responsive, took the slug away!! One of the fork seals has leaked a small bit of fluid out so figured I'd improve them. Any idea or recommendations are welcome. THANKS again for the help

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Ooh wow, thanks man !! I didn't know how long it had to be at said rpm for the auto tune to pickup the data it needs and yes I'd lose my DL quick here where I live. I've played cat and mouse with them enough. I really appreciate the reply, it doesn't act up like it does under 100% but I can tell it's acting up. In theory it should run like the PCM isn't in it with a zero map. I'm going to hook up a screen 2 it to watch for any changes to the adjustment table, where it tells if the power Commander is making any changes. I didn't take into account the higher compression Pistons, camshafts, to and many of the mods just like when I put that ethanol out stuff in it I'm wondering if that's upset in the bike. It ran like a bat out of hell and the thing just pulls harder the faster you go, so long as this PCM isn't making any adjustments it should run off the stock ECU which is good but there's a lot more in it. I'm learning more about the auto tune, I was going to use it because I thought it was a must have in order to in put a afr and the PMC v run at that afr. I know afr isn't the best way to tune for power but it does tell you if you are still in the safe zone lol. You have to have a Auto tune unit to run off or change the afr right? I can't just install a wideband sensor and hook it to the Power Commander V and start changing air-fuel ratios correct you have the auto tune box right? I really appreciate your help and reply, got a lot to think on, I'm going to get the forks rebuild, I want to stiffen the front up, I have it a little taller than stock being I'm 6'5 and like to hang a curve, I'm debating on whether to add some RaceTech springs or the valve from RaceTech. Anyone else added RaceTech goodies in their bike? If so what did you get and how has it affected the bike? I put some RaceTech springs in a Suzuki slingshot and it went from sluggish in the corners to being like it was on rails! Very stiff and responsive, took the slug away!! One of the fork seals has leaked a small bit of fluid out so figured I'd improve them. Any idea or recommendations are welcome. THANKS again for the help

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Ohhh, funny thing about the exhaust. When I got it, it had a 4in pipe from the mid pipe out, I hated it. I put a Chinese muffler on it, it's I believe it's a 62 or 65mm inlet and outlet with 15mm of packing, it sounds amazing and added enough back pressure to give it the low end torque it was lacking. Didn't affect the top end power but gave it a little more low end

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Ooh wow, thanks man !! I didn't know how long it had to be at said rpm for the auto tune to pickup the data it needs and yes I'd lose my DL quick here where I live. I've played cat and mouse with them enough. I really appreciate the reply, it doesn't act up like it does under 100% but I can tell it's acting up. In theory it should run like the PCM isn't in it with a zero map. I'm going to hook up a screen 2 it to watch for any changes to the adjustment table, where it tells if the power Commander is making any changes. I didn't take into account the higher compression Pistons, camshafts, to and many of the mods just like when I put that ethanol out stuff in it I'm wondering if that's upset in the bike. It ran like a bat out of hell and the thing just pulls harder the faster you go, so long as this PCM isn't making any adjustments it should run off the stock ECU which is good but there's a lot more in it. I'm learning more about the auto tune, I was going to use it because I thought it was a must have in order to in put a afr and the PMC v run at that afr. I know afr isn't the best way to tune for power but it does tell you if you are still in the safe zone lol. You have to have a Auto tune unit to run off or change the afr right? I can't just install a wideband sensor and hook it to the Power Commander V and start changing air-fuel ratios correct you have the auto tune box right? I really appreciate your help and reply, got a lot to think on, I'm going to get the forks rebuild, I want to stiffen the front up, I have it a little taller than stock being I'm 6'5 and like to hang a curve, I'm debating on whether to add some RaceTech springs or the valve from RaceTech. Anyone else added RaceTech goodies in their bike? If so what did you get and how has it affected the bike? I put some RaceTech springs in a Suzuki slingshot and it went from sluggish in the corners to being like it was on rails! Very stiff and responsive, took the slug away!! One of the fork seals has leaked a small bit of fluid out so figured I'd improve them. Any idea or recommendations are welcome. THANKS again for the help

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ive used autotune when I supercharged my gsx1400 but I used MAP (manifold absolute pressure sensor that was independent of stock sensors)rather THAN TPS(throttle position sensor)V RPM that is usual tune with a stock aspirated bike ....so basically I had 3 d mapping ..
if your going autotune route DONT FORGET to blank off pair valves otherwise your bike will overfuel as the autotune sees incorrect readings and fuel ratios will be wrong....when I get my installation sorted ,that be in new year ill upload a screen shot of my desired tables .....furthermore don't believe everything you see when accepting trims in tables ,sometimes you see fuel added or subtracted more than likely that is not consistent with the cell next to it ...what I used to do is delete that and rerun bike again noting the affected cell and see if it came back ...also low rpm you can have strange readings due to exhaust reversion, this is air that is drawn into exhaust that lambda sensor can see and auto tune throws fuel into that cell ,so can get complicated :frown2:
simple thing you can do regards your front is to push down hard on front forks and see if the front bounces when it returns ...more than likely it will ,so check your settings are set to stock ...think its 7 clicks out (top adjuster)and take it to 5 and see how it is ..you want the forks not to bounce ..plenty of vids on you tube ....also if your front dives too much on brakes check settings are set to stock and dial in 2 more clicks and feel how front is ...even though springs support bike and you ,increasing compression(bottom adjuster) can hydraulically support spring by slowing the rate up of the travel of the forks ..a local suspension tuner should advise you ...fork service and respring if your weight is a huge factor as stock springs are 0.86 kg/mm as for me im 95kg and id be running a 1.0 kg/mm spring for fast road
 

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Ohhh, funny thing about the exhaust. When I got it, it had a 4in pipe from the mid pipe out, I hated it. I put a Chinese muffler on it, it's I believe it's a 62 or 65mm inlet and outlet with 15mm of packing, it sounds amazing and added enough back pressure to give it the low end torque it was lacking. Didn't affect the top end power but gave it a little more low end

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not back pressure its flow ,if the exhaust has a smooth flow the fueling is better suited ..give you an example ..I had a zrx1100r 2000 to 2008 and early days before I tuned it I was just running full akrapovic with correct jets (not dyno jet recommended btw) and when finishing nights I used to meet this guy with a zx600r ninja with his stock can on ....we used to race off the lights and I had to short shift as front used to come up ,and up to 120 mph id be 2 bikes length in front and then id call it a day as his bike had better aero dynamics than mine (well I sit up and 6ft 2 not best:laugh:) went on for two weeks this until the day he pulled up with his race can on ....5 bike lengths behind every time that week :grin2:,well he gained 4/5 bhp at peak but he lost a load of torque due to fueling of stock bike not suited to can...yes it was a cheap stubby thing
 

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not back pressure its flow ,if the exhaust has a smooth flow the fueling is better suited ..give you an example ..I had a zrx1100r 2000 to 2008 and early days before I tuned it I was just running full akrapovic with correct jets (not dyno jet recommended btw) and when finishing nights I used to meet this guy with a zx600r ninja with his stock can on ....we used to race off the lights and I had to short shift as front used to come up ,and up to 120 mph id be 2 bikes length in front and then id call it a day as his bike had better aero dynamics than mine (well I sit up and 6ft 2 not best) went on for two weeks this until the day he pulled up with his race can on ....5 bike lengths behind every time that week :grin2:,well he gained 4/5 bhp at peak but he lost a load of torque due to fueling of stock bike not suited to can...yes it was a cheap stubby thing
You're so correct, it is the flow!! I've noticed more of a low to mid-range power and pulls like a mule untill the limitor!! I have been reading about exhaust pulses and how they effect the way an internal combustion engine and I have to say thank you for your help and wisdom, very much appreciate. I have a question and you might be the best person to ask, I have a bullet racing 1270 kit in the motor. To make a long story short, the cams are degreed and were installed 2 or 3 degrees advanced I believe, might be retarded I'll check the build sheet. I put a PC5 on the bike and it never ran right. Even with a zero map, it was acting like it was just dumping fuel in it so I took it off and cranked it and it sounded much better. I'll be able to ride it today and see if it is any better. My question is, do you have to have the ignition module in a case like mine, so the ECU knows when to fire? Any help is greatly appreciated. You're correct, I'm 6'5 and sitting up is like an air brake!! LOL


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You can also download maps for a PCIIIUSB and compare to the one you have. You don't have to load them to the bike just open and screen print to compare. I think the PCV software has a compare function as well.
 

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You're so correct, it is the flow!! I've noticed more of a low to mid-range power and pulls like a mule untill the limitor!! I have been reading about exhaust pulses and how they effect the way an internal combustion engine and I have to say thank you for your help and wisdom, very much appreciate. I have a question and you might be the best person to ask, I have a bullet racing 1270 kit in the motor. To make a long story short, the cams are degreed and were installed 2 or 3 degrees advanced I believe, might be retarded I'll check the build sheet. I put a PC5 on the bike and it never ran right. Even with a zero map, it was acting like it was just dumping fuel in it so I took it off and cranked it and it sounded much better. I'll be able to ride it today and see if it is any better. My question is, do you have to have the ignition module in a case like mine, so the ECU knows when to fire? Any help is greatly appreciated. You're correct, I'm 6'5 and sitting up is like an air brake!! LOL


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simple way to explain flow in exhaust systems is every time an engine fires imagine a ping pong ball going down a tube ....at front of ball its positive and behind its negative(vacuum) this vacuum pulls spent gases out of the combustion chamber so when a fresh charge of air is brought into chamber its not contaminated by exhaust gases ..now the ping pong ball likes a smooth transition out of the exhaust ,now that's down to design of exhaust (akrapovic do that well)now imagine another pot firing and another ball going down tube ,so when engine fires as it does you want all them balls one behind each other and as rpm rises theres a smooth line of balls going out in in a line ,now this is how efficient some designs can be ,when akrapovic design systems they use 4 into 1 ..4 into 2 into 1 to get the most ,thus dyno developed so no holes in power and torque with stock fueling and gains ..(muzzy take note ha)even more gains can be had with fuel adjustments ...
as to playing with ignition timing from my experience giving more advance just makes engine run hotter and no gains ,only thing ive done is put resistor in to fool ecu its in 5 th gear so engine sees full advance in lower gears which is beneficial .....as in the stock map in ecu the maps are different in gears 1,2,3 in sure someone can concur ..
Furthermore there is no knock sensor so if you gave too much advance you could melt something ,same as using maps downloaded ,you could have a cell that is dangerously lean ,same affect ...
As you have pc5 ,have you calibrated tps (throttle position sensor) with engine warm and tickover at 1000 rpm you want to see 1.084 to 1.086 volts at tickover ,this affects driveability and ecu uses this as a main parameter (adjust tps to this figure)...also engine off ignition on wide open throttle and calibrate that ..this keeps pc5 for zero throttle and 100%.
Are you running stock plugs ....take them out after a good run and check burn ,,,this is end of threaded part that sits in combustion chamber ,you want to see bleuy grey colour not black as overfueling ,plugs can tell you a lot ...also black could be oil contamination due to excessive crank case pressure ,too much oil in sump can play havoc especially tuned motors also a poor breather system..i always run my motors middle on eye glass ,ive known people to overfill oil by doing checks on paddock stand..
ps at moment im in middle of setting my 12 up with autotune and datalogging resulting afr's but due to weather its on hold ......
my advice to you is get it on a dyno and a reputable one at that but do make sure basics are right first ..oil level plugs etc
ps regards pc5 is it new or second hand as something doesn't seem right ,,,on software on pc5 click get map and see if it is zero map in pc5
 

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You can also download maps for a PCIIIUSB and compare to the one you have. You don't have to load them to the bike just open and screen print to compare. I think the PCV software has a compare function as well.
Cool thanks man, I didn't know if it had a compare but was thinking about doing just that

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I can also send you the current PCV map off my A1.. it has BMC filters, 3 deg timing advance, and full Hindle step tube so it may put you in the ball park.
Yeah that is pretty close. Yeah Man, I'd sure appreciate that, every I've looked I haven't found a map for anything with cams that are advanced. Thanks again, let me know if you need a place to send it

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Yeah that is pretty close. Yeah Man, I'd sure appreciate that, every I've looked I haven't found a map for anything with cams that are advanced. Thanks again, let me know if you need a place to send it

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PM your email and I will send it over. My timing is advanced, but cams are stock setting.
 

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I can't agree with that the ignition altering doesn't help. Ive been runnning akrapovic 4-1, muzzy yellow stacks, k&n with only fuel map (at first). Then I went muzzy ignition map and must tell this was huge difference. However while running with such setup (I also did head work with higher cr, even up to 13,5),
I have to use 100 octane fuel with small addition of octane buster, so I gues it will be about 104.
Also I wrap headers, change radiator cap and take care about proper cooling system venting.

When we speaks about exhaust system, system 4-1 perform better at high rpm. For midrange best setup is 4-2-1 with longer tube.

Would like to add that TPS mod doesnt work well to me, be warned :)

Check Tiforce design
 

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Alafadave11, thank you so much for all the great info!!! Supercharger gsx1400!!! Sounds fun!!! I can't thank you enough, I am curious about the pair valve you mentioned, I've read about it but was a while back and need to read again, lol. I've been waiting to hear about someone who has started with a PC5 and added the ignition module and what kind of magic that duo made. I figured if you had the PC5, ignition module and the autotune, you should be able to make some good power and be able to tune for anything. I ended up taking the PC5 off the bike and it went back to running normally, great. Shortly after I took the PC5 off it started acting up horribly so got it home and the neg battery terminal was very loose, loose enough that the bike would miss if you gave it more than 1/4 throttle LOL !!!!!!! Makes me wonder if the PC5 suffered from the negative cable being loose? I know when the box was on it, even with a zero map it was dumping fuel in it buuuuuuut if the ground was snug, could a low voltage situation cause a rich extremely rich misfiring rich condition? I know on a smaller scale but with the way it ran better from removing the power Commander, I've hooked up a laptop to the box, updated the firmware. The PC5 works like it's supposed too, from the tests I've done with it. Assuming the PC5 is working properly, I have to still double or triple check if any setting's are off. I wonder if I can do a factory reset on the PC5? Ohh, the right side fork has a very small amount of oil in it, just what I needed, a fork rebuild or replace the seals, front still feels good but knowing it can be better, I'll fix it. I have a new Metzler M3 should be here today!! Leaving car's and coffee I rolled into the thottle and around 30-40% around 30 MPH the tire just spun for 30ft. Getting a 190/55, was going to get a 200 but would want to run a 200/55, I like curve's, I found the Metzler on a flash sale for 127$, I was looking at a Full Bore tire but didn't find as many reviews for them. Anyone here ever run Full Bore tires? Thanks for everyone's help, I have to get some work done but will be back on here shortly. Thanks again any and all input is greatly appreciated

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Alafadave11, thank you so much for all the great info!!! Supercharger gsx1400!!! Sounds fun!!! I can't thank you enough, I am curious about the pair valve you mentioned, I've read about it but was a while back and need to read again, lol. I've been waiting to hear about someone who has started with a PC5 and added the ignition module and what kind of magic that duo made. I figured if you had the PC5, ignition module and the autotune, you should be able to make some good power and be able to tune for anything. I ended up taking the PC5 off the bike and it went back to running normally, great. Shortly after I took the PC5 off it started acting up horribly so got it home and the neg battery terminal was very loose, loose enough that the bike would miss if you gave it more than 1/4 throttle LOL !!!!!!! Makes me wonder if the PC5 suffered from the negative cable being loose? I know when the box was on it, even with a zero map it was dumping fuel in it buuuuuuut if the ground was snug, could a low voltage situation cause a rich extremely rich misfiring rich condition? I know on a smaller scale but with the way it ran better from removing the power Commander, I've hooked up a laptop to the box, updated the firmware. The PC5 works like it's supposed too, from the tests I've done with it. Assuming the PC5 is working properly, I have to still double or triple check if any setting's are off. I wonder if I can do a factory reset on the PC5? Ohh, the right side fork has a very small amount of oil in it, just what I needed, a fork rebuild or replace the seals, front still feels good but knowing it can be better, I'll fix it. I have a new Metzler M3 should be here today!! Leaving car's and coffee I rolled into the thottle and around 30-40% around 30 MPH the tire just spun for 30ft. Getting a 190/55, was going to get a 200 but would want to run a 200/55, I like curve's, I found the Metzler on a flash sale for 127$, I was looking at a Full Bore tire but didn't find as many reviews for them. Anyone here ever run Full Bore tires? Thanks for everyone's help, I have to get some work done but will be back on here shortly. Thanks again any and all input is greatly appreciated

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loose or poor connections can cause all sorts of issues ...I had issue with my charged gsx1400 and that was down to stock map sensor feeling a slight positive pressure and due to this the stock ecu just threw fuel at it to be safe ,popping and banging and afr was down to 10 and ignition timing backed right off (this was fixed by relocating non return valve T)so any slight issue can be major and can lead you to be baffled ...so do check that pcv is fitted snug as it can be quite tight in location...
As for your forks rebuild with 5 w and air gap of 110mm and if your about 95kg respring with 1.0 kg/mm springs as stock are 0.86 kg/mm which is too soft for westerns build unless your a 75 kg rider :wink2: and then dial in more rebound to control the spring .
I wouldn't go with 200/55 as a 200 section tyre requires a 6.25" rim(stock is 6") ,the only advantage of this tyre is raises rear ride height which improves turn in ...190/55 will work very well ,im sure youll give positive feedback on that one....
send me a screen shot of your map you had on bike in a pm so I can see what your running ....from my experience of the 12r it certainly likes its overfueling in stock ecu ..seems to be the norm for bikes of that era ,before supercharging my 14 I had another engine that ran 13.1 (stock 9.5)compression reprofiled cams and ported head with usual akrapovic system stock ignition curve but ecu was fooled it was in 5th gear that gave full ignition advance(had to run premium fuel mind due to comp ratio)it didn't have big numbers but where stock engine torque dropped off this held on longer and the peak power when hit stayed flat for 2 k rpm before hitting limiter but as for fueling that I data logged ,fueling was taken out low to mid I then had to add fuel to get afr in region of 13.2...mates in club couldn't believe how quick that bike was even though they had Yoshi cams etc which gave same peak numbers ...its how numbers are developed ..
 

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I can't agree with that the ignition altering doesn't help. Ive been runnning akrapovic 4-1, muzzy yellow stacks, k&n with only fuel map (at first). Then I went muzzy ignition map and must tell this was huge difference. However while running with such setup (I also did head work with higher cr, even up to 13,5),
I have to use 100 octane fuel with small addition of octane buster, so I gues it will be about 104.
Also I wrap headers, change radiator cap and take care about proper cooling system venting.

When we speaks about exhaust system, system 4-1 perform better at high rpm. For midrange best setup is 4-2-1 with longer tube.

Would like to add that TPS mod doesnt work well to me, be warned :)

Check Tiforce design
Thanks for the great impute, I'd like to try some stacks, something else I've thought about, those stacks. I have read the Best all around around 2 Short 2 long but long for better high rpm power. And thanks again for the help and the warning!!!! The question I have is if I added an ignition module to the system, with the cams being degreed and installed a few degrees retarded, might be advanced, but would the ignition module make a difference in performance along with the PC5 and a possible autotune? Thanks again for your help, I wish I could get on here more often but been busy. Thanks again man!!!

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Thanks for the great impute, I'd like to try some stacks, something else I've thought about, those stacks. I have read the Best all around around 2 Short 2 long but long for better high rpm power. And thanks again for the help and the warning!!!! The question I have is if I added an ignition module to the system, with the cams being degreed and installed a few degrees retarded, might be advanced, but would the ignition module make a difference in performance along with the PC5 and a possible autotune? Thanks again for your help, I wish I could get on here more often but been busy. Thanks again man!!!

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That silver bike looks awesome!!!! Paint it flat black and scratch it up some and our bikes would look like twins!!! LOL what's the tps mod? Forgive me I'm new to this site and haven't been able to look around as much as I would like. Ohh, about to Google the pair valve, not sure what it is but I need too. I'm sure you can tell this is my 1st fuel injected bike LOL!!


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