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Easy, when I first saw this forum I said to myself here we go!!!... Guys like Epstein, BigSaint and myself come onto the 12 board to talk about our 12s NOT to talk about the Job!!!...But I realize now, due to the type of guys we have on this board that is not the Case!!!

Easy, this is a great service that you are offering to the Citizens on this board!!!...You have done what COPS try to do, I have always known that COPS cannot get the citizens to open up to Law Enforcement, only citizens can get their peers to accept Law Enforcement!!!

Guys, I am a retired NYPD Highway Patrolman...I will answer certain questions that you have!!!...But please dont expect me to give you the details of what a cop does and why, and the secrets of how to get out of the summons that some of you may recieve!!!...I cant sellout the active Cops on this board...Once a Cop always a Cop!!!...Please understand where I stand...

I am glad that Easy made this board...I have been on the other boards and I am proud to call this my home ZX12r board!!!...


CrotchRocket
 
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hey CR. im 23 years old here in charlotte nc. ive been thinkin ever since i was .........say........ 13-14 years old that i wanted to be a cop.(specifically HP) but never have done. main reason is that all i ever hear is how cops really don't get PAID untill they retire. my ? is , is this all true or do you get descent money while you work. i haven't looked into the pay scale here or anywhere for that matter. right now im workin full time and taken some classes here at night. i hope to get a business degree but i really wanna be behind the other side of the fence. what are your, or biggie or epstiens thoughts on this?
 

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You want to be a cop to be a cop!!!...We dont get paid enough and its a struggle most of the time!!!...I recommend if you have some kind of trade like mechanic, body shop, painter, tile, flooring, home repairs, plumbing, electrician...Then become a cop that way you can do your side jobs for spending money!!!

Retirement is not much better then being on the Job...Thats why the oldtimers stay on till they are forced out!!!

Good Luck...


CrotchRocket
 
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hehe :D :D :D yeah that's what i was wanting to know bc some have told me otherwise.
 

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It really depends where you get on the job and what your expectations are regarding salary. Most cops in my town make between $70-90,000 per year, with some O.T. and the other monetary benefits that come with the job, such as pay for college, longevity, payment in leiu of taking holidays, etc. We aren't the highest paid, by any stretch of the imagination, in NJ. Some towns in Bergen county pay their Patrolman a top rate of $90,000 or more, and that's not including the O.T. they work.

Down South the pay is much less, from what I've been told. Don't take the job for the money alone, if you really don't want to be a cop you will be miserably after a few short years of dealing with dirtbags.

Scott W.
 

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Why can't you give us tips to get out of the summons we recieve or may recieve? We are also all brothers here on this board.. most of us are 12R riders. It's not like YOU are personally helping me beat YOUR summons.

All of you cops know that speeding tickets are really just another form of tax that our governments impose upon us. We all pay enough taxes. Speed kills is just a myth and you guys know it most. Driving too fast for conditions/abilities is the real killer.

I got stopped for doing 80k in a 60 zone at 5:45 am. It was a four lane stretch of road in an industrial area on a saturday morning. Not a soul in sight except officer Whosit doing his paperwork when I came zipping by. Talk about shitty timing. I was honest and respectful to the guy but I still got a ticket. He did drop it to failure to obey traffic signs... a smaller fine and only 2 demerit points but still.. did I really deserve that ticket? Any tips to help a fellow rider out?
 

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I'd help the same way I tend to warn fellow bikers about oncoming speed traps.....see unlike most in law enforcement I did not want to be a cop ever ........and quite frankly I count the days till I retire in 10 years.....But don't get my advice associated with disrespect......I am Proud of what I do and how I do it ...I just don;t subscribe to the summonse idea...contradictory huh ....Told Ya I didn't wanna be a cop....LOL
 

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Green12RPilot, my advice is to take the offering of a lesser charge and move on, unless you have reason to believe that you were not going the speed you were issued for.

Just because there's no traffic doesn't mean that you can speed. You rolled the dice that you wouldn't come across a officer and you lost. Mark it up as learning experience and move on.

Green12RPilot said:
All of you cops know that speeding tickets are really just another form of tax that our governments impose upon us. We all pay enough taxes. Speed kills is just a myth and you guys know it most. Driving too fast for conditions/abilities is the real killer.
Well, I've never looked at them as a tax base. You make it sound like we want to write tickets just to help out the state govt. ? Not likely. We are in between a rock and a hard place. The dept. supervisors want more summons because it makes the men look productive on paper. They push summons numbers down our throats and will give us negative evaluations if we don't issue enough each month. While they would never admit to it, it's a quota system. If you don't write enough, they will use it against you when you are up for promotion. That being said, I have 16 years on the job and I am still a patrolman. I issued more than my share when I was new to the job. I now subscribe to the same thoughts that Epstein has regarding summons. I issue only the ones that I feel need to be issued. If I come up short at the end of the month, oh f_cking well. I have a real hard time just writing a ticket to make myself look good and I refuse to do it, period.

You are 100% right regarding speed and MVAs/fatal MVAs. Speed by a driver that is in control is not causing the majority of accidents, though it does contribute when two vehicles are involved. For example, you are riding down a rural country road exceeding the speed by 20 mph, Mrs. Smith starts to exit her driveway, which is located just below a hill crest with very little sight distance. You are in control and so is Mrs. Smith, as she looks both ways prior to entering the roadway. You crest the hill and strike the side of her vehicle, who is to blame ??? YOU.

Hope this clears it up somewhat.

Scott W.
 

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You dont look at them as a tax base but your department sure does. By your own admission, they force you to write tickets, as part of the promotion process. In effect... a lot of cops will feel pressured by this to issue tickets to people who really don't deserve them. Did I deserve this ticket? I don't think so.

Without that system.... would most cops be sitting by the side of the road, using radar surveillance to pay the bills of the municipality. NO!!! Most cops would be on the road... pulling over drunks, road ragers, unsafe vehicles etc. How many times have you seen a driver going too slow and creating havoc behind him? I'd be willing to bet not too many tickets are issued to people for driving too slow or obstructing traffic. What a waste of time and taxpayer $$ to have a highly trained law enforcement officer to sit by the side of the road and issue fines. I would rather see you cruising my neighborhood, keeping an eye on things and make sure what I worked for stays mine and in one piece. Keeping my family safe.

Now I find out that there are fricken courtesy cards to flash around to avoid goddamn tickets if you happen to be the lucky cop-friend? Where is the goddamn fairness in that? All people = under the law. What a pile of horseshit.

About 4 years ago I was waiting outside of the bank building where my g/f worked. This guy comes running out and jumps into a waiting car. I followed the car but this suspect got squirrely and bailed. Here I am running after this turkey yelling directions to the cops on the phone. I must of chased this dude for 10 minutes on foot. He tripped running out of YMCA showers (yes, he actually ran thru the shower room) and I was all over him like white on rice. The police finally arrived and arrested this guy who robbed the bank by knifepoint. He still had his knife but he didnt get a chance to use it on me. For my effort I got a letter from the department thanking me. Why didn't they give me one of those damn courtesy cards instead.

Not too seem bitter but I have been witness to a lot of shitty things done by our local police this summer. Next time I should help the bank robber instead.
 

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For example, you are riding down a rural country road exceeding the speed by 20 mph, Mrs. Smith starts to exit her driveway, which is located just below a hill crest with very little sight distance. You are in control and so is Mrs. Smith, as she looks both ways prior to entering the roadway. You crest the hill and strike the side of her vehicle, who is to blame ??? YOU.
That would be an example of driving too fast for conditions. A safe driver should exercise caution when going over a blind crest... especially on a non-access-controlled highway.
 

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What I was trying to tell you is that not all of us are mind numbed robots that issue summons for a promotion. You were speeding and got caught. Why don't you deserve the summons ? Because there was no traffic ? Does that mean that you can run a stop sign because there's no traffic ? Or drive while intoxicated because there's no traffic ? Hate to tell you this, but it's in effect 24/7. If you strongly feel that you were issued unjustly, go to court and tell the judge that you should be found not guilty as the traffic was light that morning. What do you think his reply will be ? Give you a hint, starts with a "G".

I agree that we should be patrolling the neighborhoods, not writing tickets. That's exactly what I do with the little free time I get on the job. That's why I am a patrolman, but at least I can sleep at night. Sorry to say that not all cops feel that way. In fact, the guys on the highways, such as road troopers and the city HW cops, are out there for traffic enforcement as their job.

Your last line about helping the bankrobber pretty much sums it up for me. If you think you are being treated poorly by your local P.D. or are dissatisfied with their service, complain to the supervisors. Helping some dirtbag rob a bank ain't the answer.

Scott W.
 

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I am not going to argue but I think you missed my point.

Why are some people allowed preferential treatment under the law... ie: courtesy cards etc. Are they not just as guilty and shouldn't their guilt be determined in front of a judge?

I guess you did answer my other question without actually answering. You wouldn't have wrote that ticket up at that time and place.
 

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I'm not sure how I missed your point, but if you said I did then I'll move on unless you want to try it again.

I don't have much use for courtesy cards either, but they are out there and I'd be a fool not to pass them out to friends and family just like every other cop does. They really aren't a get of jail free card, even though that's what we call them. They are meant to be used for minor mv infractions only. I've written over a ton of them, tossing the card back into the drivers lap. Depends on the offense and their attitude. I stopped a female attorney one night for speeding, think it was 50 in a 35 zone. I had all intentions of giving her a verbal warning, before I even approached the car and without knowing who she was. She decided to push the envelope, stating that she was real good friends with a adjoining town's Chief of Police. She insisted that she wasn't speeding and told me that there would be hell to pay for stopping her ( I hadn't even issued a summons yet). She basically talked herself into the summons. She gave me a PBA card, signed by the Chief of the neighboring town and I threw it back in her lap, along a with a piece of cardboard ( MV summons) for the offense.

Like I said, they don't always get you a break. They could do away with them tomorrow and I'd be happier, as long as they got rid of all of the cards ( PBA,FOP, Sheriffs dept) but that won't happen anytime soon IMHO.
Scott W.
 

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My point was that I was asking for help in fighting this ticket. You obviously believe the current system is flawed... so why not help out someone who didn't really deserve to get a ticket.

Before you say "If you don't speed you won't get a ticket", let me ask you if you speed when the conditions are appropriate. If you got yanked for speeding would you actually get a summons? I am willing to bet the farm on a NO!

Hell, I saw the guy and didn't bother to slow down because I didn't even dream that he was running a speed trap at that time and place. I figured he was doing his paperwork before shift change. I was suprised as hell when he pulled out behind me as he didn't even look up at me when i went by.

Alright, so I am a little bitter about the whole situation. My assumptions is what got me caught... even more so than the actual act of speeding. Yes, I am going to fight it, for several reasons. I believe the revenue system stinks, and whatever anyone can do to stall it/slow it/ make it cost the city money is a good thing. If everyone fought their ticket, the system would collapse under it's own weight. I also feel that the speed limit thruough that area is way out of whack. 60km/h on a 4 lane divided hwy is just plain wrong. Maybe during rush hour traffic it's fine... but not the rest of the time.

You guys can either help or not. I know there is a way to beat this. Whether you want to help me is up to you. Besides.. what's the point of an "ask the cops forum" if I can't "ask the cops" :lol:
 

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Make a scan of teh tix and email it to me.......Ill take a look.....then we can correspond through email about the situation.....Brian
 

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I feel like an ass because I know Big Saint is thinking " Green12RPilot is a wanker.. and he deserved his ticket because he probably shot his mouth off" LOL I didn't. Seriously I was cool as a cucumber and nice to boot... I didn't think I was getting a summons, and then I did so that's why I am so bitchy about it...hahaha. Thanks Epstein.... and sorry Big Saint, I came on a little strong. Shall we shake virtual hands :)?
 

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Bigsaint said:
You are 100% right regarding speed and MVAs/fatal MVAs. Speed by a driver that is in control is not causing the majority of accidents, though it does contribute when two vehicles are involved. For example, you are riding down a rural country road exceeding the speed by 20 mph, Mrs. Smith starts to exit her driveway, which is located just below a hill crest with very little sight distance. You are in control and so is Mrs. Smith, as she looks both ways prior to entering the roadway. You crest the hill and strike the side of her vehicle, who is to blame ??? YOU.
Scott W.
The above happened to a local rider this year. He was a reasonable rider but due to some people that were not looking combined with his speed, he is now dead. He tried to go around a truck that pulled out in front of him on the road and another car was coming in the opposite direction, he tried to go around, saw the oncoming car and then proceeded to go back into his lane where he rear ended the truck and killed himself.

I just don't like getting a fine and points for 8 mph over the speed limit on the highway which is what happens where I live.
 

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Green12RPilot said:
I feel like an ass because I know Big Saint is thinking " Green12RPilot is a wanker.. and he deserved his ticket because he probably shot his mouth off" LOL I didn't. Seriously I was cool as a cucumber and nice to boot... I didn't think I was getting a summons, and then I did so that's why I am so bitchy about it...hahaha. Thanks Epstein.... and sorry Big Saint, I came on a little strong. Shall we shake virtual hands :)?
Green, can I call ya green :wink: ? First off, I don't think you are a ass. You asked some good questions and I did my best to answer them. If I missed you point I am truly sorry. You ask if I would receive a summons in a similar situation. The answer is probably no, just because I am a cop. I'm not going to lie to anyone here and blow smoke up your ass. We do get breaks that not everyone else does. Like it or not, fair or not, that is the way it is, for the most part. Remember what CR said about the truth, well here it is, plain and simple. I have never issued a summons to another officer, period. I stop off duty cops all the time for speeding. I did have the misfortune of having to charge another officer with a domestic violence offense once, that's about it. I know it's not fair, but that is the way it is, plain and simple.

Let's move on to your speeding summons. Here's what you need to know when you go to court, assuming it was staionary radar...

1) Was the officer certified as a radar operator at the time of the offense ? We are issued I.D. cards that expire after 2 years from the date of issue. Not all P.D.'s are good at keeping their officers re-certified and if the officer wasn't, the case could be dismissed.

2) Was the radar unit tested before and after the summons ws issued ? We have to perform various prescribed tests to the radar units at the start and end of each TDY that a summons for radar controlled speeding was issued. These tests are documented on a form that is retained by records as evidence should the case go to trial.

3) Part of the radar unit testing is done with tuning forks, similar to what you saw in those forced music classes :shock: . These tuning forks must be tested and certified by the state, with documents that show they are within their prescribed range. This is for Doppler radar, which I'll again assume the officer was using.

4) Were there any other vehicles in the 'zone of influence' at the time you were targeted ? In simple terms, were there any other vehicles, either in front of you or behind you, or going the other direction when the officer recorded your speed. If there were, you could attempt to argue in court that the officer mistook your vehicle for another that was speeding. This can be rebutted though, by the officers testimony.

All of the above applies to radar summons in the State of NJ, your states laws may vary. Hope it helps.


p.s. Oh yeah, the yanker thought brought back a memory for me. I locked this guy up once, right off the boat from London, for a domestic violence complaint. He was as drunk as he could be and while I was processing him at the staion house, he called be a double yanker. I had no idea what the hell it mean't, so I asked him. He replied with a motion indicating that he was jerking off while repeating the phrase. I laughed so hard that I damn near pissed my pants :lol: . Needless to say his bail went somewhat higher after that remark.

Scott W.
 

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Easy, I have to agree with you, a summons for going 8 over is pretty petty, to say the least. We use 15 over as a standard as the minimum for stopping a vehicle. While we can issue for anything over the prescribed speed, 15 and above is the norm for us in my town.

The Troopers on the highway were issuing for 10 over, when the 65 MPH zones first went into effect. I believe that they have also relaxed the restraints since then.

Scott W.
 
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