Kawasaki World banner

1 - 20 of 22 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
36 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Hi all, I'm not new to this site as I've used it many times before and found some excellent advice, but I'm a new member and this is my first post! I have a 2001 zx12r that I love and have had no issues until Brighton burn up. Details as below!

Basically, I think my battery may be fried. It's a year old, almost to the day (had the bike about 6 months before the first cold snap of the year killed it). Anyways, replaced that and no issues until last month. Found the reg/rec blown and the connector burned up and oily. Bike laboured to start, I usually use it everyday on a good 20 mile run, but thought a good blast to Brighton would charge it right up, 70 miles from my door. Nope... It refused to start when I wanted to leave. Bumped it and got home.

Diagnosed as wicking problem using the sticky at the top of this forum, so replaced the connector, and new reg/rec... Happy days! Bike again charging and riding happily for a week or two.

She was fine starting Friday, no indication of low battery, fired straight off. Went for a good ride, and it started straight away when I moved it to park me car later that day. But... Went to start her yesterday (the next day), nothing. The dash wouldn't even come alive. Checked connector and all appears fine, not been able to diode check the rec yet but will. My question is, do you reckon I could have knackered the battery by deep draining it when the reg/rec was fried and it's now unable to hold charge?

I did whack it on an optimate and it came back at 12.2v and was just on maintain with no current being sent to charge it. I know batteries can be good on a voltage check but drop to nothing when a load is applied.... Kinda hoping it's this simple.

I'm unable to get it to the workshop to check all the charging circuit out as I can't ride it! (Workshop provided by courtesy of cousin!)

I know it's a long post, but hopefully that nugget of useful info is in there!

Any help or precious experience of this kind of problem will be appreciated.

Cheers,
Tom
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
36 Posts
Discussion Starter #2
Should add that the lights lights on the dash (N and LCD) will come on after a few seconds of the ignition being on, they kinda seem to fade in. But the second you touch even the brake the whole thing dies, extra load from the brake lights I figure? Even the gauges stick half way through there cycle.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,943 Posts
Key on = It's all on the battery. So if there is a drop of current you want, hit the high beam and keep the brake light one. Now watch the meter drop from 12.2v on down to ?

Is this a wet cell battery, you have to keep the water up on it? Or is this a hammered on cap, you can't pull it off? It goes like this either way.

New battery out the box:

1. Wet battery with acid supplied. Let sit for an hour or more so things soak in, we have a static wet charge.

2. Install battery or use a headlight high beam, w/brake light bulb, we slowly drain down the battery to 1 or 2v.

3. Charge battery back up to its full charge rate.

4. Install battery again, turn key on again, keep the bungee cord around the brake light and the high beam is on with kill off. Or do the bulb thing again.

5. This should be your 3rd charge to full capacity. Out of a box, I don't care the brand, your battery is now serviceable for years.

6. Now check the charging of the bike. If less than 14.+V? Stator is shot. If 14.+V, stator is good/volt-reg good.

Signed,

NOLTT
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
36 Posts
Discussion Starter #5 (Edited)
Cheers guys, I intend to get the battery into work and load test it, then depending on the condition of the battery physically, I'll whack it on a desulfating optimiser and see if I can recover it. It cost £75 last year. Just hope a plate hasn't bent inside.

Thanks for that procedure hubz, it's a self filled then sealed battery, maintenance free. I'm curious about deep discharging a new battery. I figure that that's possibly why this one is potentially knackered, but it's not 'new'. Wouldn't deep discharge cause sulfate build up on the plates sooner rather than later? I know they're meant to be able to recover some by reversing the process when at rest, but how does this help longevity if done from new? (Genuinely curious)

Cheers,
Tom
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
176 Posts
Even though I live in California and ride and commute by bike all year. When the rains come and I anticipate not riding for a few weeks, I hook up the Battery Tender to my batteries. My ZX-12 and GSXR-1000 batteries lasted approx 7 years when they gave up the ghost.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
36 Posts
Discussion Starter #7
Sadly I live in a block of flats in Hampshire, England and it's a special occasion when the rains go slowpoke! My bike was until recently my only form of transport, bought a car literally 24 hours before my reg/rec plug burnt out. Must have been that embarassed being parked next to a kia!! I never had need for a tender as I use the bike all year round, including the ice and snow.... Hence buying the car. 8 years of gibbering your nads off is enough for anybody lol. So, I'd love to use a tender mate, but not possible being in a flat as sadly I have no garage. I know they're highly rated though. Need to buy a house with a garage. That'll do just grand.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,943 Posts
I'm curious about deep discharging a new battery. I figure that that's possibly why this one is potentially knackered, but it's not 'new'. Wouldn't deep discharge cause sulfate build up on the plates sooner rather than later? I know they're meant to be able to recover some by reversing the process when at rest, but how does this help longevity if done from new? (Genuinely curious)

Cheers,
Tom
I couldn't give you a correct explanation why it needs it? All I know is that I talked to a Yuasa tech. He told me they buy the competitor's brands, walk the same charge from new as I explained, then they bleed them down, see who holds the charge the longest?

Some other clues are the chemical reaction to the two different plates used inside. You want to keep on top of the water level with the old style batteries. That acid does not evaporate: the water does. And water is part of the chemical reaction, where [low water levels] tend to cause the acid atoms to (+)(-) cling to each other, where the (+water keeps them separated-).

You cause this constant moving of the atoms so as to not cling, cause sulfation: you keep cooking the water so it stops from sulfating. So I guess it's like flour/salt/both sodas and you mix did it up real fine like: separate the flour so in between are the others? That's my best guess you separate that acid with more water atoms in between. Make sense?

Slop is the perfect example. Keeps riding <cooking the separation and/or> Continues cooking the chemical reaction out of the wall socket.

__________________________________________________________

As far as a charger? You can run a 10a starter type battery charger to the battery. As long as you do not get the battery that hot you buckle the plates and they contact? No, you feel by hand, it gets hot, go down to the 2amp switch.

Next are the wall type chargers. You want the 1.5a battery charger if this is for small batteries. And real small is like the 1.2a charging rate. It goes like this. I have a 12N12a kind of battery read off. I have another battery that reads 12N14a kind of size.

We move the decimal point one to the right, we now have to find a 1.2 amp hour rated battery charger. A 14a goes like, I need the 1.5a because I am 1.4 amp hours and you connect me to a 1.2a charger, I'm not going to come up to my 14 amp hour rated hello?

So a battery (rated) charger is everything! It's all about balance with electricity.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
36 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
Again hubz, many thanks for another detailed response! I've just woken up so I'll digest all the info and get back once I've stripped the beast to get the battery out.

Cheers
Tom
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
239 Posts
Key on = It's all on the battery. So if there is a drop of current you want, hit the high beam and keep the brake light one. Now watch the meter drop from 12.2v on down to ?

Is this a wet cell battery, you have to keep the water up on it? Or is this a hammered on cap, you can't pull it off? It goes like this either way.

New battery out the box:

1. Wet battery with acid supplied. Let sit for an hour or more so things soak in, we have a static wet charge.

2. Install battery or use a headlight high beam, w/brake light bulb, we slowly drain down the battery to 1 or 2v.

3. Charge battery back up to its full charge rate.

4. Install battery again, turn key on again, keep the bungee cord around the brake light and the high beam is on with kill off. Or do the bulb thing again.

5. This should be your 3rd charge to full capacity. Out of a box, I don't care the brand, your battery is now serviceable for years.

6. Now check the charging of the bike. If less than 14.+V? Stator is shot. If 14.+V, stator is good/volt-reg good.

Signed,

NOLTT
Just because a 'YUASA technician' told you they use this procedure to check the quality of their competitors batteries, it doesn't mean that this is the best way to charge your new battery, if it was then YUASA would put these instructions in the box with the battery.

They're just doing a quick check to see how well the batteries deal with a few full discharges.

If you want your battery to last, follow the instructions in the box.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,943 Posts
Just because a 'YUASA technician' told you they use this procedure to check the quality of their competitors batteries, it doesn't mean that this is the best way to charge your new battery, if it was then YUASA would put these instructions in the box with the battery.

They're just doing a quick check to see how well the batteries deal with a few full discharges.

If you want your battery to last, follow the instructions in the box.
You knowatt, creed? I gave you the inside tip of tricks with car battery chargers, there is no trick but common sense of watt is happening inside. We knew about the instructions, but we were fine tuning some chemical reaction and that's about it between our off the record discussion.

So when I bought the bike, I did the ol process with a high beam and taillight. Used a 10a/2a charger for the fast boil, then final charge with a 1.5a that pushed it to the top.

Battery is 9 months old, with 4k on the bike. That's 444 miles a month without a charger attached to it between rounds. The bike is sitting with the computer keeping the clock in time, right? I don't know, is that past 12.6 as if we test the weight of the cell water?

And when I took that shot, I let the bike sit awhile and was worried I needed to charge it. Low and behold. I guess watt works for me may not work for you? And you knowhy knowon list tins two turdull even though I spit out my repeats over and over? Because...



Signed,

NOLTT
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
36 Posts
Discussion Starter #12
Well that's it done! Took the battery to work, checked the voltage, a respectable 12.78v. Put the load tester on it and blam! It sank to 0v faster than the bike accelerates. So, put it on the optimiser and it's not looking good so bought a new yuasa battery. Previous was a varter in a Bosch box....

To be honest, and hubs I genuinely appreciate the advice, I followed the instructions to get the static charge up. I didn't and won't do the repetitive discharge for two main reasons, 1st I don't have the facilities to just set the lamps on and walk away for the several hours it'd take to drain and 2nd, I'll be honest, I'm not convinced without the theory. I work in aerospace and am unfamiliar with deep discharging batteries, and in my (limited) experience, LA batteries being discharged to near empty contributes to premature failure. We use the batteries in standby systems, such as UPS, and they're trickle charged just like a bike on a tender, then when they go through a discharge after a power failure or two they give up and we replace. Just my issue on the bike wasn't presenting in the way I'd have expected, sometimes there was a dash, sometimes not. Lights were fading in and becoming brighter, not the other way round?! I do appreciate the time you took to give me the advice though hubs, so many thanks.

Anyways, all is looking dandy now, just gonna run through the charging system checks to make sure then put her to bed for the night. Gonna go play tomorrow :)

Cheers,
Tom
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,943 Posts
YW, TOM.

Creed, I never placed a charger on my 2008 oem battery once I did my battery charge routine. Traded the bike in with the original battery back in early 2013. You do the math.

Wait, I'm trying to think. Yes, I did forget to use something like vaseline on the battery posts. They got so bad, I stopped at an auto store, came out, no start. When I got home with the bike, I cleaned the posts, she fired right back up.

So key here are 3 killers of electricity and one is the white or green coating it produces over the leads/connector prongs/female ends/male ends/etc., you lose power.

And creed, get over it. Contribute or stay out or get something shoved up yourectum I have to listen to yourshit.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
239 Posts
And creed, get over it. Contribute or stay out or get something shoved up yourectum I have to listen to yourshit.
Is that a threat?, get a grip of yourself,

Really, after all the garbage you spout, you're trying to give me advice about what I write.

I don't want or need your advice, shove it up your own bunghole Chico.

:crazyloco:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,943 Posts
Yes, I'm going to waste my time and money, get on a plane, find you, and shove a bunch of battery chargers up your bum :rotflmao:

Would you like some malt vinegar with that fired one I have here for parts pick'inns? And no, I'm keeping the amp meter off it. Up yours is the rest. :crackup:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,664 Posts
Your old reg/ ret killed your battery.If your new reg/ret is good then another new battery should have you flying.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,156 Posts
after my Battery dead even though it said was ok on the optimiser it was only 12.4 V
no good make sure when you get a new battery its a good one
YTX14-BS mine is a YTX14H-BS which is stranger you can get them from

Genuine Yuasa YTX14H-BS Motorbike Motorcycle Battery Inc Filling Kit | eBay
ace battery good place to buy too takes about 2 hours to fit
acid in for 1 hour to settle then charge it works great that gave me 12.8 after the 1 hour.
13.2 after charge
 
1 - 20 of 22 Posts
Top