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Bike looks cool! I didn't notice if thos was gonna be a pure drag bike or street/strip. I like the look of where you put the turbo, but a word of caution about clearance while leaning.

If you read my turbo build and saw the exhaust I made the first time around. It was a 180* loop from the turbo, back under the bike. That exhaust stuck out the right side just a little tiny bit too far and put me down while making a turn.

Take it for what it's worth but if it drags and you aren't quick enough to catch it you will go down. Awesome build, keep up the good work.
 

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Discussion Starter #42
good luck with the decapped inj with gas. they would be good for e85 but your driveability will be poor with such big inj. its hard to find a balance between big enough and too big when dealing with just 4 inj. 500-550cc is about the limit on a 12 with gas before you start having issues. FYI the stock injectors will support about 300 hp on gas IF you use an FMU style fuel pressure regulator (6:1) and a high pressure pump.
Not sure if I mentioned it but it will be on E85. I am strongly against using FMU regulators because they put too much pressure on the whole fuel system and its a blowout waiting to happen. Fuel leaks are not cool.

If you read my turbo build and saw the exhaust I made the first time around. It was a 180* loop from the turbo, back under the bike. That exhaust stuck out the right side just a little tiny bit too far and put me down while making a turn
Yes I saw yours. Great build. What was the top end like with such a small turbo? Did it still make power up at high rpm? I imagine it would be a mid range monster. I noticed you seem to have used mandrel bends for your exhaust system. I use donuts because the bend radius is much smaller and more suited to bikes. Check em out

Mid week shenanigans

Little quick n dirty trick I used to keep heat from the manifold and turbine housing from destroying the rubber oil feed line: Wrap it with fibreglass header wrap, then wrap that with aluminium tape. Ive done it before with my car's throttle cable because its rests on the wastegate. Works great. Looks like a stick of green kinda hahaha.





Also fabbed up a mount for the middle of the exhaust, as well as the hooks for the slip on springs. Next pics of the exhaust should be finished and painted black.
 

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you should be fine with E85. FMUs have gotten a bad rap over the years with a few problematic designs. the newer begi and the rcc fmu doesnt have the issues the shim style version(and cheap chinese kock offs) had. as far as pressure goes, you will see about 90 psi of fuel pressure on a stage 1 style kit with the fmu. a properly designed system will be using parts that are typically a 300 psi rating ( at least the ones I do at work and home are) all of the rcc gen 1 hayabusa stage 1 and zx14 stage 1 kits come with the fmu we build in house and we dont have issues with leaks or blow outs. a race kit with a 1:1 regulator will see 76 psi of fuel pressure at 33 psi of boost. another 14 to 90 isnt that big of a deal with the right parts. (just to clear up any misconceptions)
 
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Discussion Starter #44 (Edited)
Another weekend of working on the Ugly Duckling (thats my name for it) done and dusted. Heres some updates in chronological order.


Exhaust is painted and pretty much done. I kept the mufflers unpainted for now. Might paint them later.







Started on the oil return. Draining the oil here so I can take the sump off and have a look at the inside. In the grass of course :grin2::grin2: Luckily the weather is faaaaaaaaaantastic right now here in Aus.



Gonna weld the return to the sump here, in this fashion.





Also made a mount for the fuel pressure regulator which tucks it away nicely. Not finished (read: painted) yet.






You may notice I use studs + nuts instead of bolts for some fittings (like in this instance and the middle exhaust mount). I do this mainly when screwing into aluminium for a few reasons. One is because a stud can use 100% of the available thread in a closed-in boss, a bolt cannot use all of the available thread if it is to tighten properly, making the stud stronger. Secondly, when you tighten the nut on a stud, there is only longtitudinal friction acting on the aluminium threads, becuase the stud is not moving. If it were a bolt, there would be longtitudinal and rotational friction on the aluminium threads, making it much more likely to strip.

When inserting the studs into the aluminium, always use loctite on studs and you only need to hand-tighten them. I simply cut the heads off bolts to make studs.

KZScott, or anyone else who knows, exactly which bulkhead fitting should I use for the fuel return? I'd like to use 8mm fuel hose but that would be -5AN which is not very common. Also there is not much clearance when I lower the tank, which means Ill have to use a 90 degree fitting which narrows my selection further. Should I stick to 4AN? 6AN? Any help here is appreciated. Thanks.

Im thinking this

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Speedflow-4AN-AN4-AN-4-Male-90-Degree-Bulkhead-Billet-Aluminium-Fitting-833-04-/271462917118?epid=2074692495&hash=item3f347363fe:g:5lIAAOxyBvZTViJr

Combined with this

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Speedflow-5-16-8mm-Barb-to-4AN-AN4-AN-4-Female-Push-On-Hose-Fitting-411-04-05-/281445077019?epid=1273489894&hash=item41876f101b:g:DVMAAMXQydtTNOzJ

Should work? Or is that not enough flow when combined with a beefy fuel pump? 6AN/10mm hose seems like it'd be overkill
 

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she might look like an ugly duckling but will fly like an eagle
we just recently bought a BMW x1 turbo diesel these turbos are a twin scroll turbo and would suite a bike (not the diesel one necessarily) but they work with very little lag as two exhaust ports feed separately to the other two great application for a bike a little extra plumbing Craig
 

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something we do at work all the time when building fuel systems is to use -6 fragola pro flow hose ends on 5/16 fuel line. we use parker or dayco fuel line. then you can use a very common -6 bulkhead fitting.
yes i realize 5/16 is technically a -5 but it works. and you can use it on oem fittings that had 8mm hose.
 

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here isa picture of how it works Craig
a twin scroll setup can also let you run a bigger turbo as it does spool it better. the trick is pairing the correct cylinders like your diagram shows. on a 1243 firing order, pairing 1&4, 2&3 works great. it fires an exh pulse into the housing in a left, right, left, right pattern. the cylinders dont fight as much back pressure that way. it is complicated and prone to boost creep without proper gating, but very effective when done properly. we can fit a gt4088 on a busa and it will spool better than a regular gt35r with the complex header.

this is one i did last yr




yes it actually fits in the body work and you can run the stock rad :wink2:
heres another one


enough hijacking...
 
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a twin scroll setup can also let you run a bigger turbo as it does spool it better. the trick is pairing the correct cylinders like your diagram shows. on a 1243 firing order, pairing 1&4, 2&3 works great. it fires an exh pulse into the housing in a left, right, left, right pattern. the cylinders dont fight as much back pressure that way. it is complicated and prone to boost creep without proper gating, but very effective when done properly. we can fit a gt4088 on a busa and it will spool better than a regular gt35r with the complex header.



this is one i did last yr









yes it actually fits in the body work and you can run the stock rad :wink2:

heres another one





enough hijacking...


That's a nice looking little project.


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Another weekend of working on the Ugly Duckling (thats my name for it) done and dusted. Heres some updates in chronological order.


Exhaust is painted and pretty much done. I kept the mufflers unpainted for now. Might paint them later.







Started on the oil return. Draining the oil here so I can take the sump off and have a look at the inside. In the grass of course :grin2::grin2: Luckily the weather is faaaaaaaaaantastic right now here in Aus.



Gonna weld the return to the sump here, in this fashion.





Also made a mount for the fuel pressure regulator which tucks it away nicely. Not finished (read: painted) yet.






You may notice I use studs + nuts instead of bolts for some fittings (like in this instance and the middle exhaust mount). I do this mainly when screwing into aluminium for a few reasons. One is because a stud can use 100% of the available thread in a closed-in boss, a bolt cannot use all of the available thread if it is to tighten properly, making the stud stronger. Secondly, when you tighten the nut on a stud, there is only longtitudinal friction acting on the aluminium threads, becuase the stud is not moving. If it were a bolt, there would be longtitudinal and rotational friction on the aluminium threads, making it much more likely to strip.

When inserting the studs into the aluminium, always use loctite on studs and you only need to hand-tighten them. I simply cut the heads off bolts to make studs.

KZScott, or anyone else who knows, exactly which bulkhead fitting should I use for the fuel return? I'd like to use 8mm fuel hose but that would be -5AN which is not very common. Also there is not much clearance when I lower the tank, which means Ill have to use a 90 degree fitting which narrows my selection further. Should I stick to 4AN? 6AN? Any help here is appreciated. Thanks.

Im thinking this

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Speedflow-4AN-AN4-AN-4-Male-90-Degree-Bulkhead-Billet-Aluminium-Fitting-833-04-/271462917118?epid=2074692495&hash=item3f347363fe:g:5lIAAOxyBvZTViJr

Combined with this

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Speedflow-5-16-8mm-Barb-to-4AN-AN4-AN-4-Female-Push-On-Hose-Fitting-411-04-05-/281445077019?epid=1273489894&hash=item41876f101b:g:DVMAAMXQydtTNOzJ

Should work? Or is that not enough flow when combined with a beefy fuel pump? 6AN/10mm hose seems like it'd be overkill


I went -6 on my fuel return.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

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Hi KZScott that turbo plumbing should be in an art gallery nice work Craig
 

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Discussion Starter #52
Few more little things getting done.

Finished the mount for the FPR. Added some speed holes.


Sealed this little drain in the airbox.


And drilled and tapped a M12 thread into these bosses located above the air intake. Every time I look up drill sizes for tapping online, I find they are always too big and I end up with loosey-goosey threads. For example all the websites seem to tell me to use a 10.7mm drill for a M12x1.75 thread. I tried that on a test piece and yep - loose like a wizard's sleeve. Then I tried a 10mm drill and it worked great. Used a standard M12 bolt with thread sealant and these red hard-felt-sorta washers.




I believe the airbox is now fully sealed. My only concern is the air filter seals. We'll see what happens.

Does anyone know what this sensor is? I plugs into the throttle bodies using a vacuum hose and looks an awful lot like a map sensor. I thought the stock ECU does not use map sensor input? Can anyone confirm if its a map sensor and what would the stock ECU do if it saw positive intake pressure?


I got rid of some tee's and things from the TB vacuum lines. Here's what it looks like now. Hope it works. :laugh::grin2::laugh:


I also plugged the PC3 into the computer for the first time. Seems simple enough to tune.
 

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Yep its an air pressure sensor
 

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Discussion Starter #54
Yep its an air pressure sensor
And what happens if it sees positive pressure? Does it add fuel or retard timing? I'm guessing no. Can I splice off of it to use for the Power Commander MAP sensor input? I was going to buy a MAP sensor but if I can use this one that would be great.

Another question for any kawasaki experts - where would I get a thicker head gasket? I dont really want to install one yet, but if (more like when, amirite? :grin2:) it blows, I'd like to install a thicker one.
 

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Another question for any kawasaki experts - where would I get a thicker head gasket? I dont really want to install one yet, but if (more like when, amirite? :grin2:) it blows, I'd like to install a thicker one.


Cometic will make one to your specifications They will also make base gaskets to your specifications. That is the better way to go than a thicker head gasket if you are talking large dimensions.


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its a 1 bar sensor and you need to check valve/vent it so that it only sees vacuum. theres no need for a map sensor input to a power commander if you only run 1 low level of boost, just map all throttle positions like you would a motor bike (but fatter when you know its making boost)

ps where you put the great big plugs above the ram air, that will interfere with the fairing. recessed allen head pipe plugs work great there

cometic makes a bunch of sizes up to .120, but if you blow one, i suggest you install some ape studs and turbo pistons with a regular thickness gasket
 
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Discussion Starter #57 (Edited)
Cometic will make one to your specifications They will also make base gaskets to your specifications. That is the better way to go than a thicker head gasket if you are talking large dimensions.
2fat I just saw your thread on zxforums.com, I didnt know you were building a turbo 12R as well! Awesome. PS your photobucket pics dont work. Try using imgur for pics. Also you should make a thread summarizing the whole build cause I dont wanna read through 19 pages with no pics lol.

its a 1 bar sensor and you need to check valve/vent it so that it only sees vacuum.
Damnit. What if I dont? will it go into limp mode or something wacky?

Edit: I cant for the life of me think of how a check valve would work in that scenario. You got a link to a specific part?

ps where you put the great big plugs above the ram air, that will interfere with the fairing. recessed allen head pipe plugs work great there
Its a streetfighter! No fairings! If you are referring to the tank cover I might just tap a M6 thread into the top of the plugs and use that. No biggie.
 

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you put a T in the vac line and have a 1 way check valve bleed off any boost going to the sensor, but have the sensor still able to see vacuum. its a tiny boost leak, but the turbo wont care. we do it on all gen 1 hayabusa kits (on gen 2 we flash them or a 3 bar and replace it with a gm unit) and zx14 kits, its how i have my turbo 12s. i believe the cracking pressure youre looking for is 1/3 psi. we get them from US plastics
 

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Discussion Starter #59 (Edited)
you put a T in the vac line and have a 1 way check valve bleed off any boost going to the sensor, but have the sensor still able to see vacuum. its a tiny boost leak, but the turbo wont care. we do it on all gen 1 hayabusa kits (on gen 2 we flash them or a 3 bar and replace it with a gm unit) and zx14 kits, its how i have my turbo 12s. i believe the cracking pressure youre looking for is 1/3 psi. we get them from US plastics
Cool. I thought of doing that but I figured it woulnt be able to bleed off enough pressure. I was probably overthinking it. I ordered this off ebay. I hope it works correctly. I figure its just a ball/spring type deal.

Crankcase Vent Vacuum Check Valve for 1.8T Audi A4 VW Passat Skoda 06A133528A | eBay



I got the injectors flow tested. I dont know if the guy I used was any good. Here's the report:


You'll notice I got 5 injectors flow tested, the 4 modified ones and a single stock one. As you can see, he listed the injectors as 800cc. But down the bottom, he lists the modified injectors as 110 (which is just an arbitrary measurement that he uses) and the stock injector as 55. Meaning the modified ones flow about 2x more. But the stock ones supposedly flow around 310cc. So are the injectors now 620cc or 800cc? Or somewhere in between?

You can see why I'm skeptical of this guy. Its also a bit strange how all 4 injectors flowed exactly the same... I phoned him up (I wasnt there for the testing) and he assures me they are all the same flow... I dunno. I'm going to do the 'off boost' tune first so I will just keep an eye on the plugs to make sure theyre all the same.



Quick question:
I got the intake back on but for the life of me I cant figure out where this line plugs into. Does any one know where this vacuum line goes? This pic was taken from the right hand side, it seems to plug into the head? Hard to tell.




Tuning. Heres the current NA map thats on the Power Commander:


I think its would be too damn hard to convert every figure to the correct value for E85/big injectors, so I might just start here:


Any objections?
 

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Is it the radiator over flow tank hose?
Btw, an excellent boost bleed valve I've used in the past on cars is http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/321384818060 dont know if it suits your budget though!
 
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