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you dont want an adjustable leak, it needs to not leak one direction so that the map sensor sees the correct vacuum and then be able to vent boost. btw you obviously dont vent the vac line connected to the FPR. it should be on a different set of the TB brass barbs


stock inj should be 330cc, not sure what hes referencing with 55 unless its volume for a random time hes chosen ?

if that line goes to above the stat, then its a coolant line that connects to the rad.

a good tuner wont care whats in it for a map, its not going to be anything close to the na map, but for future reference if you select the whole table, or a few cells at once, the page up or page down keys alters them all by 1, so if you want to pull 10% fuel you just select whatever amount of cells you want to change, and hit page down 10 times. makes for quick tuning if a whole area is out the same amount, but doesnt want the same number.
 
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Discussion Starter #62
not sure what hes referencing with 55 unless its volume for a random time hes chosen ?
Yes thats correct.

if that line goes to above the stat, then its a coolant line that connects to the rad.
Cool, I'll check that asap


Got the sump sent off and oil return welded. I shall be purchasing a TIG welder very soon as I am sick of not being able to weld aluminium myself. Sorry about crappy pics



 

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Discussion Starter #63 (Edited)
Alright, what a weekend working on the ugly duckling. Many up and downs were had. An emotional rollercoaster.

My aim for this weekend was to get it started. So I got a can of E85 and fuel hose and hooked up the regulator. Its still using the stock returnless regulator/pump setup, so the new adjustable regulator wasnt actually doing anything other than stopping it leaking and showing me what the fuel pressure is at. Lesson #1 - the stock regulator is set to 32psi at idle. Lower than I wouldve thought.

Then I tried starting it and I wasn't getting oil pressure. I assumed the oil pump was stuffed or something dire; I was stressing. After much googling I thought I would try taking the oil filter off and "primed" it by filling it with oil, Even though it was already filled with oil. Turned it over with the starter motor and voila, oil pressure. Phew. Lesson #2 - Fill the filter with oil after draining oil.

Step 3 was fitting the oil drain I made out of a bent handlebar from a few posts ago. Didn't clear the turbo. So I spent all night, working in the dirt with a handheld torch fabricating a new one. Looks like this:



Doesn't look super great.

And then came the big moment. The first startup. Things went badly (end of the vid):


So I took the oil drain apart to see what was happening. For some reason, when the engine was running, oil was being pumped UP from the sump into the turbo. I was baffled. I thought maybe that I had placed the oil return where the engine's internal oil return was, and it was splashing up into the turbo return. Again, I was bummed out.

Then I figured it out. Earlier I found another leak in the airbox (thats a whole nother story) and noticed that it was pumping air out, even at idle. The turbo is actually making a tiny amount of boost at idle. And thats when I realised I had left the crankcase vent attached to the airbox. The crankcase was getting pressurized from the airbox and thats how it was pumping oil up the oil return and smoking like crazy. Unhooked the crank vent and voila - no smoke. Lesson #3 - don't pressurize the crankcase in a turbo'd engine.

So that's where I am at now. After all the stress everything seems fine lol. My new plan is to hook the Kleen Air system to the crankcase vent because I noticed the Kleen Air tubes are producing vacuum - at least at idle - which should be great for sucking the oil out of the turbo. I need to figure out if the Kleen Air system is always pulling vacuum or if I need to incorporate a check valve in there. Can anyone shed some light on this?

Also you'll notice in the vid that my exhaust is pretty quiet - exactly what I was going for.

Sorry for long post with few pics.
 

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you have a pump or filter or filter housing or regulator or gauge issue. 32 psi is not correct, it should be reading between 41 and 46 psi
 

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Discussion Starter #65 (Edited)
you have a pump or filter or filter housing or regulator or gauge issue. 32 psi is not correct, it should be reading between 41 and 46 psi
I'd believe that. I find out when I hook up the new pump and get rid of that pesky in-tank regulator. One more question Scott, if I do the Kleen Air mod (connect kleen air to crank vent), will it always see negative pressure on a turbo application? Or will the exhaust gases build pressure, close the reed valves and not allow the the crankcase to vent at high rpms? I'm guessing yes because a turbo engine will see pressurized exhaust pre-turbo.


Took the pump out, what a stoopid contraption this is:


It will look something like this (but better) when I'm done with it, straight from pump into feed line:


Figured out how to route return, vent and overflow. For anyone curious, the port I labelled as "return" goes to the inside of the tank, at the top near the cap, so I will use this as a return. The port labelled "vent" makes its way to the cap, which I modified to vent more gooder. :tard: :lol: Finally the port I labelled "O/F cap" goes up next to the cap, and is for when you spill fuel in that little are between the fill hole and rest of the tank; the "overflow".



 

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you are correct the turbo will have back pressure, so no the cases wont vent, and worse still, it will not let the turbo drain, so you will have smoking and leaking issues. stick a little filter on it and let it breath.

you will need a submersible fuel line, regular fuel line will degrade inside the tank in no time. you are also eliminating the stock fuel filter (its in the black plastic housing) so it would be a good idea to put one in the system somewhere between the pump and inj. either in the tank or outside, whatever you feel is easier. in tank is easy to fit, external is easy to service.

be interesting to see if that vent you plan on using as a return will flow enough for a decent pump. i would drill a hole in the pump plate and use a bulkhead fitting for the pressure side and the stock line as the return. (thats how we do all the kits at work)
 

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Discussion Starter #67 (Edited)
Checking in! Sorry Ive been away, Ive been moving.

I have not forgotten the build and worked on it today - got the fuel system plumbed up and working. Just using the stock fuel pump for now for the off-boost tuning.

Next will be to connect the wideband sensor and reconnect the radiator (some fabbing required) and start tuning.

I'll be getting back into it now Ive settled.

P.S. Does anyone know what the little canister is that the stock vents go into? Is that some emissions thing? It also has a line coming from one of the throttle bodies.

P.P.S. Where do you guys usually connect the boost gauge to? I had it connected post-throttle bodies but it was spazzing out due to the pulses of the cylinders - even after I had it running off all 4 throttle bodies. Do you just connect it to the airbox pre-TB?
 

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you really need to download a service manual

a boost gauge that also reads vacuum is fine being tied to all 4 tbs(unless its a pos). if its boost only then go to the air box
 

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Discussion Starter #69
you really need to download a service manual
I'd love to. Got a link?

I usually just look at things, take them apart and figure it out and if I can't, its usually emissions BS.

a boost gauge that also reads vacuum is fine being tied to all 4 tbs(unless its a pos). if its boost only then go to the air box
I have a turbosmart boost gauge. When I link all the TBs together and send it to the boost gauge, it flutters around like crazy due to all the pulses. I noticed there are two vac ports per TB, so maybe I have it hooked up to the wrong ports? but I believe both ports per TB end up at the same place i.e. post-butterfly.

Tonight I continued to seal the airbox (there are a lot of holes, none are hard to plug though.) Got the radiator on, got the wideband hooked up and started to fiddle with the PC3. Got it to idle at -25% injector duty cycle, which is roughly what I expected, and makes sense, because the injectors flow twice as much, but E85 needs to run alot richer to be stoic. If I were to tune on unleaded I would expect it to idle at -50% injector duty cycle.

Pics to come soon
 

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Discussion Starter #70 (Edited)
The final stages of sealing the airbox:

There is a hole at the front in between the radiator mounts. Quick shot of Sikaflex here. I also used thread sealant on the radiator bolts.


The old crank vent port. Squashed a 5/8" tube and welded the end.


Another sloppy warning. Sealed the edges of the air filters with regular clear silicone. this is because I wanted to keep the filters in, and wanted them to be removable, which is why I didnt use sikaflex casue that sh*t is STRONG. I shall remind yall: "If it looks stupid but it works, it aint stupid."



Then I put my hand over the turbo inlet and it stalled. The airbox is now fully sealed.

Started tuning for off boost and this is where I landed. Remember its on E85 and the injectors flow about 2x stock. I made a set of knock ears, which allow you to listen for detonation, for about $30, if anyone wants to know more about that setup let me know.


After I had pretty much covered the off-boost part of the map I started on the high rpm section. Set the 100% throttle for 5k+ to -15% and gave it a couple of runs.

Her first taste of boost was achieved! It spools slow - about 6k rpm is when it comes on. But ohh man it comes on. In 3rd or 4th gear (cant remember) it spools at about 100kph, which is when the front wheel starts to lift. and thats at a lowly 6k rpm. Its awesome.

Some more thoughts;

On my first test drive, I thought it was firing on only 3 cylinders because it sounded real weird; just like a subaru, which is exactly what my car sounds like when its running on 3 cylinders. So I turned the bike off as I was turning into my driveway (so it was under minor load at the time) and proceeded to check the plugs.

Let me tell you something. If you have ever successfully removed the plugs on one of these bikes without the special tool, congratulations, you have the mechanical ability to turbocharge the thing. Because changing the plugs is probably the hardest thing I have done on this bike so far. It was an absolute farce.

Plugs were fine, all even coloured, checked each plug for spark, and each coilpack for spark, everything was fine, so I checked the gaps and put them back in. It ran the same, and after pulling off each coilpack one by one and hearing the change of engine note, I was sure it was firing on all 4. Escpecially since it pulls better than it ever has at real low rpm. Gone is the notorious yoshimura dead spot the bike had from idle to 2500rpm. I can practically idle it up my uphill driveway. Gotta love some backpressure.

So as far as I can tell, the weird boxer engine noise is probably due to the design of the manifold and the turbo seeing pulses at uneven intervals - just like a turbo subaru.

Also, turns out Scott was right, my boost gauge was shagged. Put another gauge - same brand, same model - on and it works just fine running off the individual TBs. Weird. It's showing only 10inhg of vacuum at idle. is this normal? Seems high (as in, not enough vacuum).
 

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Discussion Starter #71
Mid week update:

Found limit to stock fuel pump. 10psi at 8000rpm. Adding more fuel to the power commander does nothing for AFRs. So I guess its making more power than stock there. :D Yes it is fast. If anyone has any recommendations for pumps that WON'T overload my feed/return setup that would be great. Basically I am asking for the lowest flowing pump I can get away with. Somebody suggested a Wally GS342 a few pages back.

Forgot to upload a pic the other day. A simple way to get rid of the kleen air system:


For anyone curious it 5/8" galvanised pipe I got from the hardware store.

Which is a great segue into my next question... despite deleting the kleen air system, the bike still backfires on decel. What should I do to tune this out in power commander? More or less fuel?

P.S is anyone reading this? Feel like Im talking to no one :D:D:D
 

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A Walbro GSS307 fuel pump flows 255 LPM and a Walbro GSS242 flows 190 LPM. Either one of these will work, I have the GSS307 on mine.
Just so you know you are not talking to no one, I have been following your build. I have been wanting to turbo one of my ZX12's just don' t have the extra time and money for it.
 

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Discussion Starter #73
A Walbro GSS307 fuel pump flows 255 LPM and a Walbro GSS242 flows 190 LPM. Either one of these will work, I have the GSS307 on mine.
Just so you know you are not talking to no one, I have been following your build. I have been wanting to turbo one of my ZX12's just don' t have the extra time and money for it.
That's great to know, thanks! Not sure why I didn't think to check flow rate specs. What sort of return system do you have? Stock return? Returnless? Aftermarket bulkhead fittings?

The trouble now is getting a GENUINE walbro.

I didn't think I had time either, but you find time if you really want to do it. For example, this whole week I leave for work early in the morn and haven't gotten home until after 9pm at night. Except for one day I got home at 5pm and I got a bunch more of the tuning done. If you do it piece by piece you get it done sooner than you might think.

As for the money thing, if I can afford it, anyone can. If there's one thing you take away from this daft experiment of mine it's that you don't need to be loaded to have a whole bunch of fun.
 

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Absolutely been following this build I think it?s awesome what you are doing with what you got. I have zero experience with turbocharging so nothing to add to your questions etc...but I sure am following.
 

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I’ve been following the whole thing and I’ve enjoyed it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

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Discussion Starter #77 (Edited)
on a turbo bike you should choose a high pressure pump. on the e85 stuff aem has a nice one designed for it.
https://store.schnitzracing.com/aem-320-lph-high-flow-in-tank-e85-fuel-pump-suzuki-gsx1300r-hayabusa-01-12/
Im just worried that my return system wont be able to handle the flow of a 320lph pump. I might go for a ~190lph which should be enough. Thanks for the link though.


Its been raining all weekend so I've been unable to tune the bike further (it still needs a bit of off-boost tuning, like accel enrichment settings need adjusting). So my options were go into the house and wash the dishes, or hide from the wife in the shed. I decided on the latter. I needed something to do, so I decided to retard the static timing. I couldn't find an adjustable rotor wheel in australia, only fixed +4 or +6 ones, so I thought I'd just modify the pickup.

This is what I am talking about, this is located on the right of the engine, the cover has 3 bolts holding it on, super easy to get to:


For anyone who doesnt know, its just a little magnetic sensor that tells the ecu where in the rotational cycle the crank is, so the ecu can determine precisely when to fire the spark plugs, among other things. With adjustable rotor wheels, you can advance or retard when the pickup meets each tooth on the rotor wheel, essentially tricking the ecu into thinking the crank is somewhere its not. For a turbo application, you want to retard the timing to prevent detonation.

What I did was make the pickup adjustable by removing some metal.

From this:


To this:


And when bolted back up, looks a little like this:


When I took the pickup off, the tooth and the pole were inline.

This is not an ideal solution because it retards the whole map, but in a worst case scenario, the throttle will not be as responsive at low rpms. A small price to pay for keeping the engine alive, and in case you haven't noticed, I only pay small prices. :grin2::grin2::grin2: Its possible I didnt even need to do this, because im only boosting it 7psi and its on 107 octane E85, but it gives a little piece of mind. Hopefully its between 3-5 degrees static retard, which should be a good compromise.

Here's a vid of the bike at the moment:
 

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I'm not quite sure a 190lph pump will be enough for you to be running E85...

I'm running that exact same AEM 320lph pump that KZScott posted, and have no issues.

Also, I know logic would tell you to retard timing, but from everything I've learned about E85 I would say your build is mild enough that I would leave the timing at stock.
 

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I'm not quite sure a 190lph pump will be enough for you to be running E85...

I'm running that exact same AEM 320lph pump that KZScott posted, and have no issues.

Also, I know logic would tell you to retard timing, but from everything I've learned about E85 I would say your build is mild enough that I would leave the timing at stock.
hes using a vent for a return instead of something that will handle some volume. he will likely end up finding the limits of the 190 and require the bigger pump and a proper return later on as this progresses (bulkhead fittings are cheap fyi). i would also run full timing on e85 at low boost, but it might be good for someone dialing in the afr to be super safe until the mapping is good with no lean areas under load. not everyone is super quick to chop a throttle when they see a lean area. especially when you are street tuning.
 

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Discussion Starter #80
So I got home this arvo, went to the shed, turned on some AC/DC (RIP Mal), and had nothing to do again. Then I remembered my car has A Walbro 255 in it! Thats right, out it comes and into the bike.

Also the fuel hose inside the tank popped off as I was draining it, so I fixed it with a super fancy flaring tool I made.





Slapped it back together aaaaaand...

Good news everyone! The Wally 255 (GSS342) does not overload the return system! As soon as I primed it the regulator read 60psi pressure at the same setting as the stock pump read 40psi. So I just wound it down to 40psi. That covers the fuel system. The pump is LOUD. Way louder than when it was in the car. I like it.

And dont worry, my car is not running at the moment.. heres why:



Turbos. Its a love hate thing.
 
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