E-85 Conversion - Kawasaki Forum :: KawasakiWorld.com
 
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post #1 of 15 Old 09-14-2010, 12:40 PM Thread Starter
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Thumbs up E-85 Conversion

Has anyone here sucessfully converted their normally asperated 12 to run on E-85? What all was required to make the conversion? Was it a successful change performance wise? Specs on mine: 2000 ZX-12R, APE 1287cc Big Bore kit with 13.5:1 compression, stock cams but mild headwork (porting was limited to smoothing out the ports; they were not enlarged), PowerCommander III, Jardine exhaust, and the crankcase breather routed to the air valves, timing advancer (4 degrees). I have the surging idle issuse many people with Muzzy pipes have, however the AIPs modification doesn't work because it now appears it is the larger displacement overwhelming the AIPS. I dealt with this by cranking the idle up to 1500. The timing advancer smoothed some of it out, but there was still enough to piss one off until I cranked the idle up. However, my main quest here is the E-85 question. Also, I live at 4800 feet, and my rides go from 4,000 to 11,000 feet (Colorado Rocky Mountains).
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post #2 of 15 Old 09-14-2010, 02:42 PM
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hmmm

Just thinking out loud but

Normal 12R range apx 120-150 miles

Doc that for e85 by what 20%? = 96-120miles per tank.

No thanks.


However...from a technical side of the question, it'd be neat to try just because!

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post #3 of 15 Old 09-14-2010, 04:15 PM
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Your idle should be at 1500 anyway it's better for your cams... Put the Muzzy pipe in the trash can where it belongs along with everything else he ever sold and buy you an Arata pipe and be satisfied you own the best pipe ever built for the 12R...
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post #4 of 15 Old 09-14-2010, 05:04 PM
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I run stupid rich off spray and poured some of it in....got stupid lean. You sure you want to go this route?
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post #5 of 15 Old 09-14-2010, 06:24 PM
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Quit hiding your feelings Gunner, let us know how you really feel about Muzzy's products...

This might be something you have already looked at, but here it is anyway. http://www.raceone85.com/

I've heard of engines using E85 for race fuel before. It works for some car race engines, so I don't know why it wouldn't work for a kick-ass motorcycle race engine.

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post #6 of 15 Old 09-14-2010, 10:10 PM
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i did a full remap on a dyno and ride/race my bike every day. i am going to write something about it after work and post some graphs.
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post #7 of 15 Old 09-14-2010, 11:00 PM
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My personal Hate for Rob Muzzy has little to do with my statement about his brand of header pipe. His pipe is of such low quality one would probably just as well off with a stock pipe that has been gutted of it's cat except for the extra weight of the stock pipe. I truly wonder how he sleeps at night knowing what low quality he sells to unsuspecting customers that truly believe because of his name they have just purchased the best. What that man sells and what he races in his shop bikes isn't even close..
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post #8 of 15 Old 09-15-2010, 02:17 AM
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your stouch for nomal fuel is 14.63 to one ethernal straight is 9 to one so i guese 9.3 to one would be close for e85 for cruise mode to make power it would have to be around 8 to one but you would have to change your oil very regulary as it does simaller to methanol but it can make great power.if you do it get a good tuner to get the AFRs write

Last edited by maxumis; 09-15-2010 at 02:21 AM.
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post #9 of 15 Old 09-15-2010, 03:05 AM
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I don't believe E85 is available in my area anywhere Hmmmmmm?

I stand corrected.....Did a search and it's at 5 fairly close stations.......

Last edited by Gunner; 09-15-2010 at 07:58 AM.
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post #10 of 15 Old 09-15-2010, 03:44 AM
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your best bet if you want it would be to get that thing from power commander that you can have two tunes that you can choose from so if there is no e85 you can have the normal fuel tune to switch to but getting back to your question its in the tune you have to throw the fuel in compared to normal fuel you would have to make shore you have big enough injectors

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post #11 of 15 Old 09-15-2010, 08:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RetiredZX12Psycho View Post
Has anyone here sucessfully converted their normally asperated 12 to run on E-85? What all was required to make the conversion? Was it a successful change performance wise? Specs on mine: 2000 ZX-12R, APE 1287cc Big Bore kit with 13.5:1 compression, stock cams but mild headwork (porting was limited to smoothing out the ports; they were not enlarged), PowerCommander III, Jardine exhaust, and the crankcase breather routed to the air valves, timing advancer (4 degrees). I have the surging idle issuse many people with Muzzy pipes have, however the AIPs modification doesn't work because it now appears it is the larger displacement overwhelming the AIPS. I dealt with this by cranking the idle up to 1500. The timing advancer smoothed some of it out, but there was still enough to piss one off until I cranked the idle up. However, my main quest here is the E-85 question. Also, I live at 4800 feet, and my rides go from 4,000 to 11,000 feet (Colorado Rocky Mountains).
Kawasaki use to sell a different ECU for the 12R for people that live that high above sea level.. I believe a member here actually had one.. Although these days you could just have your stock ECU hacked and make the adjustments that you need..Hit Phantom up and he can hook you up with Sal and have that done if it's still an issue you want to address... and like I said before your idle should be at least 1500 for better oiling to the cams,,,,some engine builders even like more idle rpm than that depending on cam profile and spring pressure..Low idle sounds nice with big motors but it kills them dead..
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post #12 of 15 Old 09-15-2010, 10:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gunner View Post
My personal Hate for Rob Muzzy has little to do with my statement about his brand of header pipe. His pipe is of such low quality one would probably just as well off with a stock pipe that has been gutted of it's cat except for the extra weight of the stock pipe. I truly wonder how he sleeps at night knowing what low quality he sells to unsuspecting customers that truly believe because of his name they have just purchased the best. What that man sells and what he races in his shop bikes isn't even close..
all the above aside, because I TRULY do not know.. my ONLY reason for not owning one.. and it is substantial enough that IF I did buy a bike with a muzzy on it.. I WOULD treat it like a stocker.. (target practice anyone..??)

....is that they are ugly as SIN !!! I would agree with Gunner.. If I cant find another Micron.. Arata is it !

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post #13 of 15 Old 09-15-2010, 01:19 PM
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IMHO some of you should start a muzzy thread...



here we go with my E85 conversion.

my bike
- 2004
- poco
- ignition module
- hydratech full exhaust
- BMC filter
- fully dyno mapped = base map
= no further adjustments required





red graph = base map with 100% E85 = loss of 40-50HP and WAY MUCH to lean
light blue = base map+30%
dark blue = base map+45%




next step: ignition.
red = -4%
light blue = +ten%
dark blue = +4%




some fine tuning
light blue = base map with standard fuel (no ignition map)
red = E85+ignition



interesting is the midrange gain in 2nd and 3rd gear. it feels like 100cc more!! after all mapping was done we had a difference of 12HP more in midrange RPMs and at least 6-7HP in higher RPMs. at this point i paid several hundert to the guy mapping my 12 and i decided to quit. he said he would have searched for another horses...for another hundred bucks


FYI: 11500rpm+ 100% throttle = 84% duty cycle

Last edited by hobster; 09-15-2010 at 01:24 PM.
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post #14 of 15 Old 09-15-2010, 01:54 PM
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your A model fuel pump may be at its limits with 45% more fuel(you may need to upgrade, just keep an eye on DC). the Bs have a better pump

01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 on dot tires, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, 55 shot... turbo 8.32 @ 173
00 ZX-12R 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Worlds Fastest NA Kawasaki
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1
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post #15 of 15 Old 10-04-2010, 12:14 PM Thread Starter
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Sorry it took so long to reply. Thanks to everyone for the info. In Colorado, we have an abundance of E-85 stations, so I figured what the heck; cheap 100-octane. I don't ride from mid-Oct until spring, so I will miss the winter octane drop done to E-85. @Gunner, I had a Muzzy pipe once, got rid of it real fast! My idle issue right now, I believe, is the 1287cc big bore kit is overwhelming the AIPS. Because even with the stock pipe/muffler, I still have that surge. I did the pilot jet mod to the AIPS to the letter, and it helped significantly when the bike was stock displacement with the Muzzy pipe. Now it makes no difference at all. I know high volume pumps are pretty abundant, but does anyone know where I can pick up the larger injectors? I'm in Grand Junction, so I well have to search far and wide for anyone that does Dynojet tuning. Thanks Again.
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