Brake upgrade.... My take on this project.... - Kawasaki Forum :: KawasakiWorld.com
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post #1 of 28 Old 08-22-2018, 12:08 PM Thread Starter
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Brake upgrade.... My take on this project....

Ok...

I bought and installed a Nissin master cylinder... Here is the thread.. https://www.kawasakiworld.com/zx-12r...-question.html

Then I started to look for new brake calipers. I could have gone Brembo, but then they need an adapter to fit.. Then found Nissin calipers. Nissin makes both 4 and 6 piston ones. "Problem" was, which ones to buy? Even tried posting about it here.. https://www.kawasakiworld.com/zx-12r...-calipers.html

Tried to "google" but couldn't find any real life info on this issue, so based my decision on the Nissin calipers that the 4 piston calipers have 2 pistons (well 4 to be exact) less to cause issues. Found a brand new set of Nissin 4 piston calipers through Ebay... Nissin part # are N4PR and N4PL... The calipers I got even came with Sintered brake pads. To get new brake pads search for the following pads (Sintered) EBC 145HH, SBS 624HS, Ferodo FD557 or Nissin 442P253. These calipers are also used on the Suzuki Bandit 1200 from 1995-1999 and many Triumph models, for example the Triumph Daytona 1000 from 1991-1995... Do a serach for brakepads for those models and you'll find the correct ones...

Ill let you know how the swap turns out.. I would love to get rid of the "no brake feel what so ever" once and for all....

/Tom
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post #2 of 28 Old 08-23-2018, 05:15 AM
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I have a set of the 4-piston Bandit calipers, and EBC pads; haven't gotten around to swapping them yet. My only addition years back was a good set of braided lines and fresh fluid. Stops fine but does show some fade under hard repetitive use.

Compared to newer style radial brakes the stock brakes suck for a heavy bike.. but that is another story all together, There are adapter brackets to add radial calipers but I have never seen real good feedback for someone using them on a 12R

00: Black-n-flamed, Hindle, BMC, Marchesini, Penske, Racetech, EBC, Russell, PCv
http://www.freewebs.com/heads_up_rac...ikerebuild.htm

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post #3 of 28 Old 08-24-2018, 12:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by texlurch View Post
There are adapter brackets to add radial calipers but I have never seen real good feedback for someone using them on a 12R
Really??? There are loads of us on here using them

I've had them on my 12R for the past 7 years and they've been exceptional
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Graham:-)
2005 Silver 12R
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post #4 of 28 Old 08-24-2018, 07:14 AM
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post #5 of 28 Old 08-24-2018, 09:27 AM
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Really??? There are loads of us on here using them

I've had them on my 12R for the past 7 years and they've been exceptional
Any links to brand or purchase site? I do miss my ZX10R front brakes but for the most part never found the 12 to put me in a bad spot due to the front brakes.
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00: Black-n-flamed, Hindle, BMC, Marchesini, Penske, Racetech, EBC, Russell, PCv
http://www.freewebs.com/heads_up_rac...ikerebuild.htm

RIP Pigpen2000... we'll ride again soon!!
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post #6 of 28 Old 08-24-2018, 09:53 AM
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Originally Posted by texlurch View Post
Any links to brand or purchase site? I do miss my ZX10R front brakes but for the most part never found the 12 to put me in a bad spot due to the front brakes.
or least one haven't been able to recover from. But I do believe it's a great conversation piece and an invaluable tool for the track enthusiasts.

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post #7 of 28 Old 08-24-2018, 11:34 AM Thread Starter
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Haven't had time yet to do the caliper swap, I'll probably have time and do it this Saturday.. -I hope! I'll update once the Nissin calipers are mounted and do a review on how the setup feels....

Any way... my take on this whole brake issue... -There are better brake calipers than the stock Tokico setup to mount on the bike, and why any one would not do this upgrade is beyond me. It is not that expensive and does not take that much time to do....

Also.... -The two main things that get riders in trouble, even if their bike has the best brakes and suspension setup money can buy - OVERCONFIDENCE and SPEED!!!!

/Tom
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post #8 of 28 Old 08-24-2018, 01:03 PM
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Haven't had time yet to do the caliper swap, I'll probably have time and do it this Saturday.. -I hope! I'll update once the Nissin calipers are mounted and do a review on how the setup feels....

Any way... my take on this whole brake issue... -There are better brake calipers than the stock Tokico setup to mount on the bike, and why any one would not do this upgrade is beyond me. It is not that expensive and does not take that much time to do....

Also.... -The two main things that get riders in trouble, even if their bike has the best brakes and suspension setup money can buy - OVERCONFIDENCE and SPEED!!!!

/Tom
Perhaps because there have been riders paid to ride the brakes of this bike and at the end of the day that didn't exactly happen. Here in the states, not enough confidence or speed, that's certainly a recipe for disaster as well.

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post #9 of 28 Old 08-25-2018, 08:49 AM Thread Starter
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Ok... Calipers mounted, brakes bleed and a 3 hour test ride done

All I can say is -WOW!!! I knew the brakes on my bike were not great, but damn, didn't think they were as bad as they were. Now I have one or two fingers on the brake lever and it does not take much effort at all to get the bike to slow down. I love this setup Trail braking into corners feels, well, I don't even have to think about it, it's so smooth.. The change did how ever make me rethink and adapt my riding corners, though in a good way... SO to buy and mount a Radial master cylinder, steel braided hoses and the Nissin calipers is really worth the money and time spent if you ride an early model ZX12R...

/Tom

Ps. I know it looks like there is a leak at the banjo bolt in the posted pic, but it's not leaking! I just did not wipe off the caliper well enough after I did the bleeding.. Wiped it after I took the picture and no leaks ....
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post #10 of 28 Old 08-25-2018, 09:43 AM
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hmmm... may have to invest in a MC to go with my 4-pots... glad it worked out for you!

00: Black-n-flamed, Hindle, BMC, Marchesini, Penske, Racetech, EBC, Russell, PCv
http://www.freewebs.com/heads_up_rac...ikerebuild.htm

RIP Pigpen2000... we'll ride again soon!!
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post #11 of 28 Old 08-25-2018, 11:02 AM Thread Starter
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hmmm... may have to invest in a MC to go with my 4-pots... glad it worked out for you!
Why not try the 4 pots with the stock master, might work out really good.. it doesn't take more than about an hour of your time and some brake fluid...

/Tom
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post #12 of 28 Old 08-25-2018, 11:38 AM
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Why not try the 4 pots with the stock master, might work out really good.. it doesn't take more than about an hour of your time and some brake fluid...

/Tom
Then again, swap it all and bleed it once.... My old bandit with 4-pots was "ok", with the stock master.
If I am swapping parts I want "mo better"

00: Black-n-flamed, Hindle, BMC, Marchesini, Penske, Racetech, EBC, Russell, PCv
http://www.freewebs.com/heads_up_rac...ikerebuild.htm

RIP Pigpen2000... we'll ride again soon!!
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post #13 of 28 Old 08-25-2018, 12:20 PM
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I guess it's too late, but I wonder what you'd've thought if you first disassembled and cleaned your Tokicos,
replaced all your seals, and reassembled them. I did that very thing 2 years ago, and returned my
braking to "like new". I thought it was amazing. Okay, I did also throw on braided lines at the same time.
My point is, I was able to brake hard with a light touch using OE calipers and MC.

I wonder how many riders who claim the 12's brakes suck are actually just riding on calipers that have
never been maintained other than pad changes. Just for grins, pull the 6 pistons out of your Tokicos
and take a look at them, and their bores, and their seals. Then decide if the brakes are just a weak design or not.
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post #14 of 28 Old 08-25-2018, 01:03 PM
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Originally Posted by quinocampa View Post
I guess it's too late, but I wonder what you'd've thought if you first disassembled and cleaned your Tokicos,
replaced all your seals, and reassembled them. I did that very thing 2 years ago, and returned my
braking to "like new". I thought it was amazing. Okay, I did also throw on braided lines at the same time.
My point is, I was able to brake hard with a light touch using OE calipers and MC.

I wonder how many riders who claim the 12's brakes suck are actually just riding on calipers that have
never been maintained other than pad changes. Just for grins, pull the 6 pistons out of your Tokicos
and take a look at them, and their bores, and their seals. Then decide if the brakes are just a weak design or not.
I can't say that I know what it's like to ride on 18 y/o brakes since this was the approach done to mine. Shortened levers did replace the oem but I'm certain the levers are not the only reason it works as it should. Whether using one or two fingers it works great.
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post #15 of 28 Old 08-25-2018, 01:28 PM Thread Starter
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Quinocampa...

You are correct on all accounts in your post... BUT the thing is, the calipers are still 18 years old. Time does weird and strange things to aluminium alloy the calipers are made of. With you cleaning them you most likely removed powdery gunk (oxidized aluminium) -yes? This gunk is what makes the pistons stick and not move as they should. Problem is, at the moment you have good brake calipers, but in a short time the aluminium again starts to oxidize and the pistons will start to stick. No rebuild will end the oxidizing process, its a problem with the alloy itself. Also if you rebuild your calipers 2 times, well that amounts up to a set of better brand calipers....

/Tom
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