[Vincent Hill]

AT 500 miles, your bike is "NOT" Broken in yet! You have a very hard bore for the rings to seat against. I STRONGLY Suggest that you put in Regular Motorcycle Oil for 1,500 more miles and then change. Use Honda 10 / 40 or Kawasaki or yamaha Brand, but non Syn oil.

Then go to the Syn Oil. As long as the bike never sits around, most Syn Oils are fine. But if your bike sits more than a day at a time, Oils like Mobil are so slippery that they completely drain to the crank case. When you start up, you can hear the engine for about 140 seconds before it is everywhere. For this reason I use Motul E-Tech 100 because it has Grape Seed Oil mixed in (From France) and it clings to all of the parts better than any other Syn Oil then gives you the protection of Ester and Pao Syn Oils. I have only been riding for 46 years and raced for 15 in the AMA (Still hold an expert license) and set a Land Speed record or two at 199+, so what would I know?

 

[Vincent Hill]

Three things, Marcos, the 10 W 30 Car Oil has a lot of slippery stuff that will do your clutch no good. #2, Car Oil is not designed to be sheared by a Transmission. #3, 30 weight is a little thin for a street Bike and traffic. At the Race course not so bad!

Bandue, This is America (Or the rest of the free world) and Idiots can (and "DUE") work anywhere. For someone to put 20/50 in a new engine plus Syn oil just proves how good our engines are! They are made Fool Proof, but not Dam Fool proof. Think of the molecular structure of Oil as marbles. The bigger the number, the larger the Marbles. 50 weight is like the Bowlers and 40 weight is like the Regular Marble and the 5 to 10 weight is like the Glass beads the size of small ball bearings. The imperfections on a new engine are the size of the Bowlers (Largest Marbles)< By putting in the smaller marbles, the parts are allowed to rub each other until the imperfection are down to the the small Marble size. (Most of this takes place in the first 500 miles. That is why you must go the slowest in the first 500 miles! Then, to smooth the parts more, that is why you must go faster so that you can heat the parts so that they will expand to sqeezethe oil and still touch and smooth the parts even more!

The problem with Syn Oil is the Marbles are much stronger and harder to sqeeze and wear to a smaller size a lot slower which negates the break in process. If you have less than 2,000 miles on your bike, I would put in some regular Honda 10 W 40 Oil and run your bike real hard for about 500 miles to get it broken in. Then go back to 10W 40 oil! Screw the Stupid dealer!

Shaft, you can have too much of a "Good Thing". The metal in the Oil actually helps the engine to break in. Nowadays, Oil is so slippery that without the Metal, it is hard to break in. The Mini Cooper "S" we have comes from the factory with 5 W 30. Because it is Syn Oil, they have you keep it in for "10,000" Miles. Of course I did not believe this and changed my Oil at 2,500 miles and it was Ugly! I got an Analysis Kit and sent it to a person letting his oil stay in for 10,000 miles! Would you believe that the testing showed the oil could go a little farther. The next interval was 15,000 miles! Knowing what I know, I am now, I changed the oil at 2500, 6500 and 10,000. The Second Time, 5,000 miles apart and finally I will change at 7500 miles.

No one should change their oil sooner than 5 to 600 miles. The at 2,000 miles and then at 3,000 miles in the summer or 2,000 miles for winter or racing!

Sorry to take so much time here, but Marcos, you have a $10,000 Motorcycle and putting thin car oil in it is not a great idea!

 

[Vincent Hill]

Great questions Marcos. To start with, the reason 30 wt for Racing and not street is on the race track, you are not in stop and go traffic where the engine heats up and then rapid cooling then High heat and slow speed. You just get a regular amount of expansion from the race heat where it stays. The extra thickness is also needed in the transmission for longevity and endurance of the Parts. Racing is for Max Power for a "KNOWN" amount of time and all of the parts are replaced after the race. Oil in a motorcycle lasting a long time has a few problems of which the Transmission is the main problem! All of the cars have seperate oil and usually a lot heavier oil for the transmission. Second, the heat and cooling of a bike can happen a lot quicker. The #1 thing is we rev the engine to 11K everytime we ride the bike. Most cars rarely see 4,000 rpms!

 

[Vincent Hill]

The problem with Castrol GTX is that it is SJ or higher rated, SF or SG is the last formula the bikes clutch will handle! WHen at 4 or 5K miles your clutch slips and you replace the shoddy Kawasaki clutch and tell everybody how bad the ZX12 Clutch is, think about the owner's choices?

 

[Vincent Hill]

What about AMS oil 10/40? Thats what I am using and I like it.

Simple. what does the rating say? SJ? If it is car oil and has a higher rating that SG, then it will be slippery on the clutch.

 

[Vincent Hill]

Metal shavings are a Long way away from the Metalic particles that the Oil filter does not pick up! Do you even realize that bike oils all have metal in them as the last defense against major damage? What is "Zinc"? A real metal that is used as a sacrafice to save the engine.

All I am saying to you is "I understand your thinking, but think you can go too far". Imagine that most humans when born come into poluted air. Imaging that a rich person decided to avoid the germs and dirt in the air and gave the baby pure air! What would happen? The baby would get sick and die as soon at he left the room because there was no immunity! Looking at it from your viewpoint, dirty air is a bigger threat than dirty oil. So are you cleaning your air filter after every ride? Do you have a pre-filter on the snorkel? Have you checked your air box to make sure no dirt has gotten in?

What do you think an Oil filter does? It removed the need to change oil every 20 miles. Back in my day, between bad filters (Some vehicles did not even have oil filters (Old VW Bugs) and the weak structure of oil, we "HAD" to change oil every 1,000 miles! No I do not trust the car companies when they tell me how many miles I can go before a change. That is why I sent samples of my oil to a lab for Spectro anaylsis! I have had my bikes apart at 10, 20, 30 and 40,000 miles and everything was in Mint condition and making more HP than the average person.

So like you said about opinions, I am not trying to change yours, but I am trying to get you to moderate it for your bikes own good. BTW, I rebuilt a Porsche 911 engine and changed the oil too soon and went to Syn, the Cylinders never sealed with the rings. Now I put the engines together with 1 drop of oil on each side of the Piston Skirt and allow the engine to start up "DRY" so the rings will seal and use straight 30 weight S/A Grade non detergent oil to boot! have it your way, Please!

 

[Vincent Hill]

Modoc, I also remember the article and can find it if necessary. The Oil at the time was (Da daaaa) SG/SH Rated and not the current SJ Rated. Like I said, nothing wrong with any oil rated SG or earlier. The 15 / 50 Mobil is SH not SJ Rated so it is close to being Bike oil Also. SO I see no dissagreement what what you are saying.

My main objection to Mobil is the fact that my bikes can sit for weeks at a time and the start up sounds like a dry engine. It takes 2 minutes and 30 seconds for the noise to go away! Waay too long for me. Motul has none of that and the "Way" I shift, I have no problems ever shifting. Muzzy, Yoshimura (Until 3 years ago) and a few others all used Motul full esther.

 

[Vincent Hill]

I am from the Utiel Gietal (How ever you spell his name) from the BMW Super Bike days. He put 1 drop of oil on each skirt of the piston and dry and clean cylinder with fresh Cross Hatch. And started the engines up and felt that by the time of full Oil pressure, he had ring seating. Me personally I like about 250 miles with about 10 heat cycles unless I am using Wiesco Pistons. Then it is 1 run followed by a tear down to sand the high spots on the pistons then 2 runs and another tear down then I could run hell out of them. Otherwise, I had to break them in on the street! SLOOWLY!

 

[Vincent Hill]

Funny, Motorex is what Yoshimura switched to! If I ever go turbo, I would use Motul 300V all Ester. Also the Higher weight (50 wt oil) Mobil does not have the super slippery agent the 30 wts have. Do one thing, if you let the bike sit for a few days, tell us if you hear the dry noises and time them to see if yours goes away quicker than 2.5 minutes!

 

[Vincent Hill]

Oil is not like dot 5 and dot 5.1 brake fluid. Any oil will mix with any oil. Even transmission and engine oil will mix perfectly! The old ZX11 had 2 drain plugs, I have not really looked at the pan to see it the return line would do the Job!

 

[Vincent Hill]

Oil mix perfectly.

The best way is to flush.

Flush with Oil (You plan to use if going that far), not the Kerosene oil flush because it will eat your engine. Bad enough in a car.

 

[Vincent Hill]

SOmeone here has one and the problems are, the "0" RIng which they do not send spares and you must buy them and they had a problem with the assembly coming loose once, but the problem was later resolved, but as much of an experimenter as I am, I am not ready for them yet!