[my12r]

I see all the time, failures of fuel pumps in the 12, and other bikes. It has me wondering...

How many folks who have suffered a fuel pump faiure also regularily run their fuel down to next to nothing?

Fuel pumps need to be submerged in fuel in order to stay cool, especially on a motorcycle. The tank sits above the engine, which heats the fuel. The hotter the pump, the faster it fails. I see it all the time in automotive applications, people who ride 1/4 tank or less are replacing fuel pumps quite often. Those who run their tanks 1/4 and above seem to go forever.

I see a lot of pump failures on 12's here. How many of you let it get down to the flashing bar, or 1 bar, before you fill again? I usually fill her back up at 2 bars, 3 of I know there ain't gonna be a station for a bit. Round town, I fill up before every ride, no matter how much is in there. I have never seen the last bar flash. I have gotten into 1 bar tho once, and had to put 4.2gal back in.

 

[zx12mark]

Yes you are correct about low fuel burning up fuel pumps.I have 60,000 miles on my 12r pump and i always wait till it starts to flash.............Dip me in shit............lol

 

[my12r]

Ok. So one pump run down to flashing ain't burnt out yet. Obviously I wasn't talking to you then eh....

My questions was, how many who HAVE suffered a failed pump regularily run the tank low, to the last bar or further till it flashes, before they refill the tank. Perhaps there may be a connection there and an opportunity to prevent someone else from suffering a premature pump failure.

 

[maxumis]

The fuel going through the pump is the pumps cooling aid and lubing for that matter .

 

[KZScott]

who on here has actually had a pump failure? i mostly see guys upgrading the pump when they need it for performance reasons.

 

[maxumis]

:crackup:

Jesus christ. Keeping the pump cool is just one example. It plays into a second example, which is tied directly to running your tank down to next to nothing. A hard corner with very low fuel COULD CAUSE NO FUEL TO BE SUCKED INTO THE PUMP, thereby causing DAMAGE to the pump. If you suck air, you can overheat, damage and various other problems.

So again, the question still stands. How many people with DEAD PUMPS have ran their tanks low on a regular basis?

If all you have to do is argue, go somewhere else.

The ONLY one that wants to argue is YOU buy the looks of things :lol:

Never had a fuel pump failure .


PS you have now gone from Running low on fuel to Running Out of fuel :lol:

 

[my12r]

who on here has actually had a pump failure? i mostly see guys upgrading the pump when they need it for performance reasons.

There have been many threads started by guys who have had the same symptoms. RPM hitting the wall at 6~8k while riding. Classic fuel pump symptoms. I have gotten into more than one argument with people, like the preschooler max (see his above dribble) that no no no it's not the fuel pump, and after 16 pages of folks telling the poor bastid to chase their tail, they replace the pump and all is better. I'm not going to search them all up, but I can recall at least 8 here in the past year or 2. I've see a few elsewhere online as well. I bet there is more if I did search it up.

 

[KZScott]

dead pump or clogged filter?

 

[my12r]

dead pump or clogged filter?

I just went back and did a short search for a minute and there has been a couple completely dead pumps, but most are running into flow issues. A couple have been inline filters, but the vast majority (I counted 10 in my short search) that have the 6~8k brick wall issue, which was resolved by replacing the fuel pump.

 

[my12r]

My curiosity is, how many of these failures are related to sucking air from low fuel. A few times may not hurt anything, but doing it a lot will. It doesn't take long with the pump spinning at 7k plus to suck a lot of air in a short time, and repeatedly doing so can cause damage. Being as I myself have not ran the bike down to nothing, I don't know from experience, but I have read more than once that when that last bar flashes, you have around 20 miles left in the tank, which would make for less than a gallon of fuel. In this case, it would be easy to lean the fuel away from the pickup and suck air.

There is the flip side as well, which I think is what you are getting at. A plugged filter can cause pump failure and flow problems as well. It was not clarified if the entire sending unit was replaced in most cases resolving the flow issues or if it was just the pump itself.

 

[KZScott]

If you have never had a pump failure, that I am not talking to you either. I ain't mad at ya tho. I understand it is hard to read with only a preschool education.

Jusy for clarification. Cars, when cornering hard, send fuel to one side of the tank on occasion, but newer designs can reduce this effect, as long as there is more than E on the fuel guage. Motorcycles, well, you have to lean a bike to turn, at which time this thing called gravity can pull the fuel away from the pickup. So no, I have not changed from running low, to running out. Your ASSUMPTION, weak attempt as it is, is that that is what I am saying. If you took the time to sound out the bigger words in there, you would see that your interpretation is erroneous. You should really look into getting back into school and at least graduating elementary school. It may help your reading and comprehention skills.:thumbup:

sorry to call you out on an error while youre up on your intelligence high horse picking at others, but when you lean a bike into a corner, the fuel pretty much stays as it should in the bottom at the pick up. lets use a coffee cup as an example, when you drive hard in a corner, you can keep the coffee from spilling by tipping it sideways(the same way a bike leans into that corner) the same goes for the oil in the pan, it stays at the pick up where it should. we arent toasting rod bearings from going around corners, the same way we arent killing fuel pumps from going around corners. just thought you should know :thumbup:

 

[MetalMagician]

I just went back and did a short search for a minute and there has been a couple completely dead pumps, but most are running into flow issues. A couple have been inline filters, but the vast majority (I counted 10 in my short search) that have the 6~8k brick wall issue, which was resolved by replacing the fuel pump.

Now go back and look at the posts where they were hitting "brick wall" at 6-8k and see what model it is. I would almost guarantee they are B models. The B models are very prone to filter clogging, and because the filter is not serviceable and you can't purchase it separately, the only fix is new pump assembly. I personally have not had a pump failure but I have experienced the clogged filter symptoms. So in those posts you've found they are not pump failures but more like filter failures.
I'm curious have you experienced a pump failure on your 12? If not then what is the purpose for this discussion?

 

[my12r]

sorry to call you out on an error while youre up on your intelligence high horse picking at others, but when you lean a bike into a corner, the fuel pretty much stays as it should in the bottom at the pick up. lets use a coffee cup as an example, when you drive hard in a corner, you can keep the coffee from spilling by tipping it sideways(the same way a bike leans into that corner) the same goes for the oil in the pan, it stays at the pick up where it should. we arent toasting rod bearings from going around corners, the same way we arent killing fuel pumps from going around corners. just thought you should know :thumbup:

I disagree. Volume is what prevents sucking air.

Have you ever watched a soda bottle or water bottle while driving in your car? What happens when you go into a curve on a highway at 70? Does the fluid climb up the side of the bottle? Nope. What about if you pick the bottle up to simulate a lean angle of a bike in that same corner, does to fluid stay flat? Or does it stay level with the earth?

Point is, there ain't enough centrifugal force at 70mph to keep the fluid center mass. It is an easy experiment anyone can try if you want to do some science. Next time you out for a drive, grab a bottle of water, and watch it when you go into curves at normal highway speeds. It will stay level with the earth. You would have to go into that corner pretty fast for the liquid to slosh to one side, or climb the wall. A car application has a fuel tank that ramains on the horizontal. It is a fixed position, subject to the suspention. A motorcycle leans. Therefore, the physics of it is somewhat different. You picture fuel sloshing to one side of a gas tank in a corner, but in a motorcycle, it has to climb a wall. You would have to be hauling some serious ass to overcome the forces of gravity on them liquids. ....

Gravity is always trying to pull everything to its center. It takes a significant force to change this. To prevent oil starvation, you must keep your volume at the right level. Same thing applies to fuel in the tank.

Juss sayin.....

 

[my12r]

Now go back and look at the posts where they were hitting "brick wall" at 6-8k and see what model it is. I would almost guarantee they are B models. The B models are very prone to filter clogging, and because the filter is not serviceable and you can't purchase it separately, the only fix is new pump assembly. I personally have not had a pump failure but I have experienced the clogged filter symptoms. So in those posts you've found they are not pump failures but more like filter failures.
I'm curious have you experienced a pump failure on your 12? If not then what is the purpose for this discussion?

No, I have not had a failire of my pump. I did not note which model it was, but did concede earlier that the inline filter could perhaps be cause of some issue. I can recall a couple threads here where cleaning the filter resolved the issue, temporarily. No, they were not all B models. Any bike with this style electric fuel pump could suffer damage sucking in air from low fuel.

As for the point of this discussion, it is food for thought really. I read a lot of how people try and stretch a tank in the 12 in particular, not realizing there is inherent danger in doing so. Danger to your wallet. There is even a danger of causing an in tank fire, but it is very remote and rare, so, we don't worry too much about that. That is part of why they mount fuel pumps in tanks. To prevent them fron bursting into flames. Liquid gas does not burn, but fumes explode. This thread is to get people thinking about how they care for their bikes. It is never a good idea to run a fuel tank low unless you can't avoid it.

 

[my12r]

2003 ZX12R - Cleaned inline filter and did not resolve the issue; Replaced pump problem solved

2003 ZX12R - Fuel pump same symptoms

2005 ZX12R - Same symptoms and turned out it was the fuel pump, cleaning the filter changed nothing

2005 ZX12R - Fuel pump failed, filter was clean.

2003 ZX12R - Fuel pump died. Replaced and bike ran good. Filter plugged as well.

2000 ZX12R - No confirmation but the same symptoms of the fuel pump issue. Included cause is an A model.

This is just a few going back that have had fuel pump problems. Seems it does affect the B model moreso than the A models....interesting. The inline filter has not seemingly been the culprit however.

Quite sure there is more, but, I'm tired of looking....:lol: I excluded several threads because there was no confirmation of the fuel pump being the problem, 8 threads I believe it was. I included the last one without confirmation only because it was the only A model one I came across with the brick wall at 8k.

 

[MetalMagician]

Point is, there ain't enough centrifugal force at 70mph to keep the fluid center mass. It is an easy experiment anyone can try if you want to do some science. Next time you out for a drive, grab a bottle of water, and watch it when you go into curves at normal highway speeds. It will stay level with the earth. You would have to go into that corner pretty fast for the liquid to slosh to one side, or climb the wall. A car application has a fuel tank that ramains on the horizontal. It is a fixed position, subject to the suspention. A motorcycle leans. Therefore, the physics of it is somewhat different. You picture fuel sloshing to one side of a gas tank in a corner, but in a motorcycle, it has to climb a wall. You would have to be hauling some serious ass to overcome the forces of gravity on them liquids. ...

Have looked inside your tank? There are baffles that ensure optimum fuel even at low levels. I'm not trying to discredit your theory but the engineers have designed the tank in such a waythat you won't have this problem. I agree if you run the tank low enough then yes you could suck in air but at that point you wouldn't have much further to go until the bike shuts down completely upright or not. If you reach this point on any vehicle you will most definitely have a failure.

 

[my12r]

Have looked inside your tank? There are baffles that ensure optimum fuel even at low levels. I'm not trying to discredit your theory but the engineers have designed the tank in such a waythat you won't have this problem. I agree if you run the tank low enough then yes you could suck in air but at that point you wouldn't have much further to go until the bike shuts down completely upright or not. If you reach this point on any vehicle you will most definitely have a failure.

Yes. I am aware of this. Most things are engineered with gravity and inertia in mind. I see no attempt to discredit. You are on the money. However, when the last bar on the guage is flashing, you have very little fuel left. According to a few cats here, 16~20 miles, sometimes less. This is assuming the sending unit actually is reading the fuel level properly. So, the risk is there at the point of running her down to flash before fill.

:thumbup:

 

[maxumis]

2003 ZX12R - Cleaned inline filter and did not resolve the issue; Replaced pump problem solved

2003 ZX12R - Fuel pump same symptoms

2005 ZX12R - Same symptoms and turned out it was the fuel pump, cleaning the filter changed nothing

2005 ZX12R - Fuel pump failed, filter was clean.

2003 ZX12R - Fuel pump died. Replaced and bike ran good. Filter plugged as well.

2000 ZX12R - No confirmation but the same symptoms of the fuel pump issue. Included cause is an A model.

This is just a few going back that have had fuel pump problems. Seems it does affect the B model moreso than the A models....interesting. The inline filter has not seemingly been the culprit however.

Quite sure there is more, but, I'm tired of looking....:lol: I excluded several threads because there was no confirmation of the fuel pump being the problem, 8 threads I believe it was. I included the last one without confirmation only because it was the only A model one I came across with the brick wall at 8k.

WOW that is a lot of failures :crackup:


PS love the way you twist your posts to suit your self :lol::lol: First post was all about the fuel covering the pump to keep it cool , now its all about the pump sucking in air :crackup: I think your a bit of a :tard: imho :lol::thumbup:

 

[MetalMagician]

I don't care how many times you attempt to clean a B models fuel filter it is still dirty. IT IS NOT SERVICEABLE! You can not get access to the filter element let alone even see it. I would put almost any money that these so called failed pumps would run just fine with a new filter. Like I said earlier you cannot just buy a new filter KHI does not sell them that way. You cannot just use an aftermarket in line filter because the fpr is built into the filter. That being said again the only solution is a good used assembly or a new oem assembly.

Those examples were never a confirmed fuel pump failure.
That A model could easily have been the inline filter too witch you could easily replace the filter with any unit the fpr is at the rail.

 

[my12r]

I don't care how many times you attempt to clean a B models fuel filter it is still dirty. IT IS NOT SERVICEABLE! You can not get access to the filter element let alone even see it. I would put almost any money that these so called failed pumps would run just fine with a new filter. Like I said earlier you cannot just buy a new filter KHI does not sell them that way. You cannot just use an aftermarket in line filter because the fpr is built into the filter. That being said again the only solution is a good used assembly or a new oem assembly.

Those examples were never a confirmed fuel pump failure.
That A model could easily have been the inline filter too witch you could easily replace the filter with any unit the fpr is at the rail.

One of those threads it was confirmed that the fuel pump was tested at 6 PSI on the bench. The filters were left in the bike, pump replaced, solved the problem. Not sure where you are getting that the sending unit cannot be disassembled and a new pump installed. :headscratch:

One.of the threads the whole assembly was replaced. Others, pump was replaced. Problem went away. That is confirmation is it not? I think so...

Of the ones I have listed, there is 4 or more that I didn't include because there was no reply confirming a resolution. I could assume it was a resolution because no more complaint is noted, but they coulda just moved along as well so, who is to say the end result. I cannot say for sure what was the resolution for Connmans bike either, but that he got it back after the fuel pump was replaced and it ran good. Since, as you pointed out, Kawasaki does not sell the filter as a separate unit, I would assume the original was put back into place with a new pump, and problem solved.